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1
10/19/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
I once heard an astrophysicist point out that perhaps there's a possibility life and intelligence do spring up across these "M-Class" planets, but then are snuffed out at various times for various reasons (comet, asteroid, solar storms, wandering too close to a blank hole, nuclear war). He likened the effect to a giant galactic-size Christmas tree, in which the lights blink on and off at random times.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
Life on another planet? Ha!
Evolution is mathematically so ridiculously impossible that life will never pop up anywhere without intelligent assistance.
And before anyone accuses me of pushing a religious point of view, don't forget that Atheism is as much a religion as is Christianity. Proponents of mechanistic evolution are forever pushing their religious agenda while deflecting critism by accusing us of pushing ours.
Does it actually take a rocket scientist (or at least a ZDNET subscriber) to see through that kind of hypocrisy?
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RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Well Mr LarryPTL - why don't you explain that mathematical impossibility to all of us...
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RE: LIfe on another planet
Larry you're totaly right, a guy being born from a virgin with the ability to turn water into wine, and rise from the dead makes more sense then evolution.............if it were the year 1500.
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RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Not much! 286,000 mps is only a mathematical limit; the Lorentz-
Fitzgerald contraction equations only show that material objects cannot
fly AT the speed of light (in a vacuum). They say nothing limiting
about FASTER than that speed!
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
The mathematical impossibility
For life to exist, numerous, complex proteins as well as simple proteins (less than 1000 amino acids) called enzymes are needed. One enzyme, the Peptodyl Transferase enzyme, enables peptide bonds to occur at room temperature. Without it, the heat needed to unite two or more amino acids into a protein would kill any carbon based life in existance. Peptodyl Transferase therefore must have existed before life.
To make the first Peptodyl Transferase (assuming it has 100 amino acids), the following assumptions are taken:
The original amino acids were made by various processes in the primordial atmosphere. They fell to the very hot surface in rain where the water boiled off rapidly, allowing the amino acids in it to unite in the peptide bonds.
What are the odds?
Per the Miller?Urey experiment and other experiments, over 100 different amino acids were made. To make the odds easy to figure, let's assume the number is 125. Amino acids have two polarities, left or right. All living things use only the 'left' oriented amino acids in their proteins.
The odds of getting the first amino acid correct for Peptodyl Transferase is 1/125 * 1/2 (l/r), or 1/250 (4*10^-3).
The odds of getting each subsequent amino acid correct is the same, however, there are four ways amino acids bind together. Only the peptide bond is used. Assuming each bond has an equal chance of occuring on a boiling hot rock, the odds of getting the correct 2nd amino acid joined to first and in the correct bond is 4*10^-3 * 1/4 or simply 10^-3
Each subsequent amino acid has the same odds, 10^-3. With a total of 100 amino acids, the odds of getting this 'small' enzyme correct is 4x10^-3 * (10^-3)^99, or 4x10^-300.
Given that the universe consists of only 10^82 protons and neutrons, and it will take approximately 1000 protons and neutrons for a single amino acid and the aqueous solution it swims around in, and assuming 100% of the universe's matter is available, (which is impossible, 99.999%+ is tied up in stars and the cores of planets where life can't evolve) then only 10^82/10^3 = 10^79 amino acids are available for the chemical process to occur.
Conclusion
Given that 2.5*10^300 amino acids in the primoridal atmosphere are needed to just to get the one enzyme, it is mathematically ridiculously impossible for life to spring up from non-life without intelligent assistance. And when one looks at all the different, more complex proteins also needed (a minimum count is 256 different types in the simplest of life forms) mechanistic evolution isn't going to happen, ever.
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Re: Virgin Birth
If existance consists of only our 3 dimensions of space and the one dimension of time, virgin birth is impossible.
But string theory shows our universe started out as a ten dimensional structure, and well within the first second of its existence split into a 6 dimensional entity which ceased to expand, and our current, 4 dimensional entity (this was the latest theory when I last checked about a decade ago).
A being with access to a 4th dimension of space can perform many miracles; turning water into wine, or virgin conception are among them. Give them access to a 2nd dimension of time and virtually every miracle in the Bible is suddenly scientifically feasible.
For every miracle in the Bible to occur, it takes a 3rd aspect of this extra-dimensional being: absolute sovereignty.
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8
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RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Mmmmm. So where/how did the intelligent assistance evolve?
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9
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Luckily, scientific theories depend neither on belief nor on 'votes.'
My suggestion is that 'intelligent designers' eschew modern medicine, since much of it relies on DNA and the inter-relatedness of animals. After all, if 'evolution' is not right, why use medicine/procedures tested on primates, let alone mice?
HMM, might cure our insurance & medical access problems if 'intelligent designers' opt out.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
LarryPTL
you don't half talk garbage, "Evolution is mathematically so
ridiculously impossible that life will never pop up anywhere without
intelligent assistance" please explain the maths behind that or did
you just make that up? Even if it was so, where did the "intelligent
assistance" come from? some people just have to try an create an
answer to the question. "where did we come from?" without looking at
the most obvious answer, that all the element for life already exist
here on earth, without the need for gods, aliens or comets etc. that
doesn't deny the existence of a "god" merely human perceptions of
what "god" is.
"Atheism is as much a religion as is Christianity." Total dross,
just because someone believes in something doesn't make it a religion, which is generally a faith in something that has little on
no evidence to support that belief.
"Does it actually take a rocket scientist (or at least a ZDNET
subscriber) to see through that kind of hypocrisy?" err, if I
understand you correctly, you are saying that believing in life on
other planets and evolution is hypocrisy? please explain that or are
you just shooting from the lip again?
And as for "rocket scientists" I hope you're not one as it would
never get into the upper atmosphere.
ta ta
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11
10/20/09 | Report as spam
further discussions on Atheism vs Christianity
I have ignited a firestorm beyond the ability of this forum to discuss.
I suggest the book "You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think: Answers to Questions from Angry Skeptics" written by Ray Comfort.
If that doesn't change an atheist's mind nothing will, and therefore further discussion on this point is mute.
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12
10/20/09 | Report as spam
Life and 'intelligent assisstence'
'.. it is mathematically ridiculously impossible for life to spring up from non-life without intelligent assistance'. Perhaps our statistician Larry PTL would care to estimate the odds for 'assisting intelligence' to spring up from 'non-intelligence' ?...
Henri
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13
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
We are arrogant to think we are alone. When you consider all of the galaxies, all of the solar systems within those galaxies, all of the stars within those solar systems and all of the planets orbiting those "suns", to think that none have evolved to include intellegent life is beyond imagination.
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14
10/20/09 | Report as spam
What direction should we look?
If the universe is expanding, we are spreading out farther and farther
away from any other life in the universe. Barring worm hole travel or
something like it which we cannot realistically foresee now, we are
alone and always will be.
But not completely alone. We have each other.
Maybe we could work with that
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15
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
How about a more leisurely 186k Mi./Sec.? I think the number in the article is incorrect.
(or 300,000 Km/S for you EU readers)
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16
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Earths have always been everywhere. There is a RANGE of survivability of the human genome DNA-code which includes most the planets in this solar system, despite what NASA's DOGMA about desolation everywhere INSISTS. ... I have reviewed NASA's photo-processing techniques.
1. They use a lens ONLY SET FOR INFINITE DISTANCE, so ANY foreground feature, structure, figure or movement is NEVER RECORDED,.
2. They disseminate photos at 72 dpi [to the public] which are impossible to focus and resolve precisely.
3. NASA photos have evidence of [pitch, roll, yaw] defects that show up as SKEW and SCALE DEFECTS, uncorrected.
4. NASA uses black-and-white to obliterate details in shadow; they use FATUOUS COLOR SCHEMES (blue sand, purple tire tracks, yellow sky) to obfuscate real conditions.
My database of photos, clarified and restored to photographic purity, show that Mercury, Venus, our Moon, Mars, Phobos, Phoebe, Europa, Saturn, Iapetus and Titan are all PEOPLED ALREADY with Humans in Black, White and Asian Races [plus Bigfoot and Reptoid].
Already peopled with people just like us. No Aliens need apply.
And I'm sick and tired of being lied to, my children and grandchildren being lied to; the textbooks being bastions of dysinfo and fables so that NSA can keep the lid on "Disclosure."
I'm sick of being lied to! Disclosure is that humanity is already on nearly all the planets. So, deal with it!
Emily Cragg, webmaster
www.holyconservancy.org
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17
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Evolution challenged folks are incapable of understanding evolution. Not enough brain power. For anyone to think that there is intelligent design in this Universe, no wonder they believe in the non-existent son of the mythological god of the Jews, born of a virgin, whose ancestors took dietary advice from a serpent.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
Even Darwin said it was BS
On his deathbed even Darwin said evolution was BS and he "thought it up".
For the miracle mockers out there here's a few real life examples of people:
Ian McCormick killed by box jellyfish pronounced dead and then raised to life through Christ
Another man killed in a car accident, paramedics declared him dead, a pastor comes along in his car prays for the man and raises him to life
A young woman from YWAM faints after praying for the healing of a woman's withered arm - when she opened her eyes it was completely healed and she fainted 
These miracles didn't just "happen when Jesus was around" they happen all the time all through time because Christ gave his life so that all may have eternal life.
His command that all should go out and raise the dead, heal the sick, and baptise the people still stands today and there are countless real life examples of this all over the world today.
The fact that Jesus existed is beyond doubt, did you know he is recorded in numerous historic books whose accuracy is considered by historians beyond a doubt?
So if he existed then he only left three options for you to choose from:
He is who he says he is - the son of God
He is a complete madman on account with someone who calls themselves a peanut
or he is something far more evil than Satan could ever come up with and his deceptions know no bounds.
I'll let you think on that one
Cheers
Tyrone
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19
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
If there are Earths everywhere, then there must be internets everywhere. And if there are internets everywhere, based upon the sample contained in this comment thread, the universe must be full of bat-**** crazy lunatics.
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20
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
The reason none of the intelligent life forms or civilizations on other planets have yet to contact us may simply be (1) they are still so primitive they have no way to know we exist or to communicate with us or (2) they are truly an advanced civilization and have decided it is better not to let us know we are neighbors. They believe that would just make matters worse here. We may not be mature enough, in their eyes, for a meaningful relationship. Imagine, if we made contact and asked if them if God sent down his son to save everyone from Original Sin and they said - "God had no need to do that on our planet. We don't have any Original Sin or any other kind of sin." or "Yes, God had to send someone down to save us from Original Sin but he sent his daughter Jane instead."
Frank H.
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21
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
The reason none of the intelligent life forms or civilizations on other planets have yet to contact us may simply be (1) they are still so primitive they have no way to know we exist or to communicate with us or (2) they are truly an advanced civilization and have decided it is better not to let us know we are neighbors. They believe that would just make matters worse here. We may not be mature enough, in their eyes, for a meaningful relationship. Imagine, if we made contact and asked if them if God sent down his son to save everyone from Original Sin and they said - "God had no need to do that on our planet. We don't have any Original Sin or any other kind of sin." or "Yes, God had to send someone down to save us from Original Sin but he sent his daughter Jane. We didn't know he had a son."
Frank H.
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22
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
To the forum editor
Apologies to all. Please delete post 20 which I wrote and thought was rejected based on the message I got when I clicked on the Submit that said I didn't have an account. Post 21 is a slightly revised version I submitted after getting an account and not knowing it accepted the first message after I signed up. When we become a more advanced civilization, software will become smart enough to recognize and correct this type of user input error. (Gee, I hope they are smart enough at smartplanet to have someone there actually read these postings and be able to delete a message.)
Frank H.
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23
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
1) if there are hairy thunderers who make other stuff in the universe, as others have pointed out, it seems reasonable to ask how THEY came to be. If the odds of everything else "living" are so remote, then the odds of that Creator having evolved are even more so.
2) if Creator-beings could exist, just like the rest of living creatures, the odds of there being only ONE are infinitesimal
3) if you have some hi-res photos of living beings on Mars and Europa, feel free to post them. We would all be interested.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
odds?
@LarryPTL
"Evolution is mathematically so ridiculously impossible that life will never pop up anywhere without intelligent assistance."
to make a statement like that it's obvious that you fail to comprehend the size of the numbers involved here...
It's true that the odds of life starting is low. Conservative estimates are at ~.01% chance in 4 billion years on any planet. now, when you consider how many planets are in our galaxy alone, the odds are quite reasonable (actually almost guaranteed) that primitive life has formed elsewhere in this galaxy.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
"We have yet to find the salt shaker of the alien spaceship, let alone E.T., a close encounter of the third kind, or even Marvin the Martian.
If I might speculate, one reason might be that 286,000 miles per second is more than a good idea.
If it truly is the law, subject only to the slowing of materials or the subjectivity of the observer approaching the same speed, it means we may truly be alone in time and space."
Very bad speculation! it's been calculated that a not so much more advanced race could colonize our galaxy at sub-light speeds in as little as a few million years. in the grand scheme of things, a very short time.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
LarryPTL
Thanks for participating and thanks for the reference. Although whether there is intelligent life on this planet has always been open to question...as I've seen at other talkback threads. Or on shows like "The Real Housewives of Atlanta" (picked because it was filmed here where I live).
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27
10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
If habitable planets are more common than we thought, life may have developed on some or most of them. However, it doesn't mean we should expect visits from little green men anytime soon. The speed of light is still a physical boundary.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
"Scientists have now found about 400 ?exo-planets? using telescopes, most in the size range of Jupiter."
Those are pretty large telescopes!
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
To all who insulted and debased me ...
Thank you so very much for fulfilling biblical prophecy. Jesus foretold that his followers would be hated by the world.
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RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
So great, "earths" are "everywhere" that does not exempt us from being responsible caretakers of our own world. We are obligated to feed the poor, house and cloth the needy and stop polluting our own environment! Why? Because theos "multiple earths" are just a carrot on a stick. We can't move there... We can not realistically believe that some benefactor is going to show up on a baseball field and offer us the answers to all disease, famine and world peace. (re: Klatu)
Face it people...we are stuck on this vulnerable bit of cosmic dust for the next several centuries (baring nuclear holocost). Maybe then humanity will mature to a level of intellegence and wisdom to move to other Earths.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
There seems to be something organized going on. Twitter faces a DDos based on a "No God" that gets too many hits to handle, Facebook polls popping up should God be allowed in the classroom, Larry here. What's going on? Is there organization here? Who?
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32
10/20/09 | Report as spam
The Holy Bibie, New Testament, Luke 16:26
..., between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
Re: Evolution
Familiar with the sexual barrier? No, not a condom or a diaphragm, but the leap from asexual to sexual reproduction.
All life below a certain level multiplies by division (1=2). Above that point, all life multiplies by 'addition' (1+1=3).
All non-ID/creationist theories to explain how, not one, but two cells could have developed a mutually compatible, and fully developed 'mutation', and at the same place, and at the same time, AND how at least one of those creatures also arrived at the idea of combining the mutations for fun or pleasure either violate multiple precepts of evolutionary theory (such as gradualism and natural selection), or resort to the pathetically illogical argument: "Well, it's there, isn't it? So it must have worked."
Crazy.
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10/20/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
The odds of being struck by lightning are astronomically high, so high, one would conclude that it were virtually impossible to happen. And yet it does.
The odds of dust collapsing in on itself to the point where it ignites is so astronomically high, as to render it virtually impossible. And yet we have stars.
The key to these events is time and repetition. With enough time, events repeat enough to virtually ensure that, even without "intelligent design", certain things, such as the creation of stars, or being struck by lightning, will eventually happen. Essentially, "no matter how unlikely something is to happen, given enough time, it will eventually happen." Such is the case with life. The earliest experiments showed that, even with a completely unfocused attempt, enzymes were created from ooze over night. The most basic molecules for life are so easily created, they pop into existance at the mere zap of static electricity. And while those five thousand enzymes may not ever do anything more, given enough time, and several gazillion such enzymes, more things are likely to happen. Time and repetition create opportunity for what can only be described as astonishing and miraculous events. But if some people want to ascribe an intelligent designer to being the one who designed and created laws to for universe such that it would create life at every opportunity to do so, that, I will never argue against. You're free to belive it or not as your choice.
But as we look out amongst all of those planets, I am reminded of what Stepphen Hawking said. "I hope there is intelligent life in the universe. There's much sign of it on Earth."
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35
10/21/09 | Report as spam
Statistical Models are almost always wrong.
I should know, that's what I do for a living.
As for the natural creation of life, I certain that either some of the assumptions used for the calulation that leads to a figure of 2.5*10^300 are incorrect; or the model itself is flawed. As Galileo stated, "But it moves!"; or in our case, "Life exists!"
How did EmilyCragg manage to post on this forum when it seem obvious to me that she's from a completely different universe or time-line than we are? It's the only explanation I know of for the discrepancy in her observations of the other planets and our own.
God is a pathetically poor teacher. Unfortunately, many teachers in the U.S. use the same methodology. Telling only and expecting students to memorize and accept that at face value.
The complete process is, "Tell me, show me, guide me, watch me, check on me, correct me, praise me when I get it right." Jesus, as we know him, was a great man; but christian religions have failed to pass on a living legacy of people able to effect miracles.
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10/21/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Obviously a contentious issue and an ongoing debate - how about we try not to get bogged down in dogma and 'belief' either way and just keep watching and asking more questions whilst keeping open minds. Often new questions are far more interesting than old answers.
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37
10/23/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Yes, Larry PTL, Jesus is reported as having said that; what he is not reported as saying is "Go out and ask for it"
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38
10/24/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Bring our planet to anywhere in universal is very cool, we can meet another lives very easy, but how can we do that?
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39
11/04/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
"Evolution is mathematically so ridiculously impossible that life will never pop up anywhere without intelligent assistance."
Evolutionary processes can be created in computers and they work, you can solve problems more effectively using them and in ways not though about by humans.
Enough said.
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40
11/09/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
You've got to be kidding me. I reprocess and restore NASA photos
from all their projects: Apollo, Cassini, Magellan, LCROSS.
NASA's photo processing is deliberately flubbed. Their photos are
full of faults in skew and scale [due to pitch, roll and yaw of
the carrier], contrast extremes and inversions and false [silly]
colors.
The FACT is, "diffraction of light" occurs according to the same
principles all over the entire Universe, not just in our solar
system.
NASA has a vested interest in the "Teaching" that there's no other
life. In my work I find human forms everywhere--on every planet
and so far, on every single moon. Human life is a hologram,
regardless of Substance or Elements of which human life is made,
that is ubiquitous! Everywhere. Our Moon is peopled. Mars is
peopled. Venus! Saturn! Neptune! Most of Saturn's Moons too.
But just one Moon of Jupiter because there's too much background
radiation surrounding Jupiter.
NASA/SETI have this political agenda, founded in NSA political
philosophy which favors Treaties with ETs (Greada and Tau-Nine) ETs
and their preferences. We humans count for nothing; and we are
lied to from the time we awaken until we go back to sleep.
You want to choke down the scientific false-pablum they give you?
Be my guest!
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41
11/10/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
In my "humble" opinion... and I'm not seemingly as "smart" as those of you who have previously posted... But, if this is it... and we are all we have in this universe... that's one HELL of a waste of space...
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42
11/17/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
I find it interesting that even reading all these smart posts, it seems there is an underlying bias or paradigm that life on other planets must be substantially similar to life here. I think we may need to first challenge the definition of "life" and then expand our understanding of what may exist throughout the universe(s). What if life on other planets is so fundamentally diverse than our that we are looking past each other - even that statement is no without a trace of bias ....looking assumes some visual context -
With that said - this forum is sure lively!
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43
11/17/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
I find it interesting that while reading all these smart posts, it seems there is an underlying bias or paradigm that life on other planets must be substantially similar to life here. I think we may need to first challenge the definition of "life" and then expand our understanding of what may exist throughout the universe(s). What if life on other planets is so fundamentally diverse from our own that we are looking past each other - even that statement is not without a trace of bias ....looking assumes some visual context -
With that said - this forum sure is lively!
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44
11/17/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Within 200 years, we will be building space ships the size of very, very large, and totally self contained aircraft carriers. I use an aircraft carrier as a comparison as it is the closetest and largest example of a self contained city with thousands of people on board. However it will be more like a giant self contained submarine with the ability to travel across the vast ocean of space.
And even if the nearest Earth like planet is many, many light years away and it takes many, many generations of people living on these space crafts to reach the distance planets, on some very distant day, we will reach these planets!
So let us work together, no matter what prophet you follow (if any) or religion you believe (if any), in reaching the true destiny of the human race!
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45
11/18/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
The question that I would like to get answered is why did intelligent life evolve? Why weren't there "intelligent" dinosoaurs? Or whales? I do not think that intelligence is the crowning achievement of evolution, because that means that the result of all evolution would be intelligence (it certainly had enought time!). I think life is widespread. Intelligence is the needle in the haystack.
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46
11/18/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
If the earth got smashed to bits by a really huge asteroid, bits of it would shoot off randomly in all directions. The chances of some of those bits carrying hardy bacteria that could survive space, maybe trapped in ice are pretty high. Eventually, some of those bits could enter the atmosphere of another similar but lifeless planet. Who knows, maybe that's what happened here?
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11/18/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
pjanel@...
11/18/09
RE: The question that I would like to get answered is why did intelligent life evolve?
For the answer, check out this 3 part series on Nova regarding how humans evolved from monkeys into intelligent beings!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
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48
11/19/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Pjanel is right on, it is intelligent life that seems to rare based on the one (admittedly insignificant for a scientific sample) case we know about, Earth.
As far as we know, billions of life forms arose on this one planet before humans developed the ability to ask these questions, it almost seems random, since a lot of non-sentient life developed and flourished during the past couple of billion years.
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11/23/09 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
A good book to read on this is "Where Is Everybody?" by Stephen Webb. It discusses 50 possible solutions to life on other planets (sorry, theological discussions are not included). I won't reveal his conclusion, but will say that regardless, we need to concentrate on taking care of our world and all life found on it. Until we can show that we can do that, looking for extraterrestial life seems to be nice but certainly not a priority.
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50
12/03/09 | Report as spam
AlienBean- just what I was thinking.
The definition of "life" as being somehow similar to ours. Pretty stuck on ourselves being the end all of end alls, aren't we?
In reading all of the posts here, I use a sort of "bell-curve" in weeding out the ones that seem WAY to out there in how they come across.
People on the moon? OK- out. Those who blindly follow their indoctrination?- OK- out.
Consider this: That "life" on some rock out there somewhere took an entirely different path- not from the building blocks we are made of, but perhaps from something we can't get our "advanced" minds around. For as much as we think we know, I bet there is an infinite amount left that we don't know (or won't know).
People once thought the sun revolved around the earth, thought the earth was flat, etc- which now seems very silly. Many religious texts "explain" the unexplainable (during that time period) as miracles or something divine (with embellishment for story value)- do those "stories"- just because they are old, make them true? Attaching divine properties to the unexplained is an easy cop out- which some people are more comfortable with, and that's fine- just don't ram it down my throat as truth- I'm not biting.
I'd be extraordinarily surprised if we on this little rock were the only example of any kind of life form- there may be some methane breathing creature we can't even imagine out there who is thinking the same thing we are- are we it?
Key is to open-minded to the possibility- we are infants when it comes to science. Just 30 years ago a microwave oven was science fiction. We didn't know a fraction of what we now know due to the now-functioning Hubble scope.
Look at human's scientific progress in the last 100 years- (keeping in mind the exponential growth of knowledge) and sit down and IMAGINE what we will know 100 years from now.
I think there is a staggering chance that their is life out there- I also think it will be a long time before we will bea ble to explore those other "earths".
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01/04/10 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Planned or not, I think there is at least one reason to keep us and any other intelligent life forms apart. As a species, we are aggressive, violent and greedy. The best of us are capable of violence given enough stress. That is in keeping with our Universe, born in violence and continuing to create/destroy galaxies, stars and other lesser configurations in manners violent. Why should other life forms be less violent, less aggressive, less greedy? It would not be in keeping with our Universe.
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01/12/10 | Report as spam
RE: What does it mean if Earths are everywhere?
Leaving aside the "pseudo-theological"speculations and ranting of the creationists/intelligent design fanatics and the equally bizarre life everywhere conspiracy theorists, there are a few fundamental issues of physics,biology,temporality, statistics and chemistry that will ultimately dictate the likelihood of life outside our solar system.
First of all, life is not uniquely dependent on the carbon-based model. Research has shown that it could theoretically develop using alternate chemical building blocks. Secondly, our human definition of intelligence is not, based on animal research, all inclusive. Research shows that dolphins, squid and octopi may possess far more profound and sophisticated intelligence than chimpanzees and may possibly rival human brainpower, if measured on a broader scale.
Temporally speaking, if we realize what our rather basic intelligence has wrought in under 20,000 years (a miniscule fraction of space/time) and that what we have now will be unimaginably archaic(almost unintelligible) in another 100 years time, we come to realize that an "intelligent" species of whatever design their evolutionary process led them to, but who were 1000 years ?lder"than us(which is equally miniscule in space/time) would be so advanced as to appear "divine" to us. Make that 10,000 years and we can't even imagine what they would be like. We would be as neanderthals to them and they would be like angels to us.
The argument that other life is likely with such vast numbers of galaxies (of which we can only see about 1% using our best telescopes)is somewhat misleading. It is the old monkeys writing Shakespeare argument which claims that given enough monkeys writing on typewriters/computers for an infinite amount of time, one would eventually write a Shakespearean sonnet by chance. The reality is that life succeeds in niches where the right but sometimes extreme conditions exist, whether beside a volcanic vent 2 miles down in our oceans or in areas so cold and depleted of oxygen that we couldn't survive without serious technological intervention, i: alpine lichen in the Antartica. If life not only survives BUT thrives, then anywhere between these extremes, life(as we know it) could almost surely develop given the number of available places to start in the known and unknown universe.
Answering the original question is impossible. We don't know how many ?arth-like"planets in the universe it would take to have life similar to us develop. If life, as I stated earlier, can develop that isn't like us(a very high probability) then our range of planets increases astronomically. If intelligence isn't restricted to the "human kind"but can be as varied as life itself, then we arrive at the same answer....noone can know until we get out there and find out. We are a middle range solar system, neither young nor old on a celestial scale so 50% of the galaxies out there are much,muich older than ours, meaning millions of years older.
To bucket 44, just because we are violent apes doesn't in any way reflect the rest of creation. The physics of the known universe is neither destructive nor aggressive in a human sense. It is simply a process of birth and rebirth following firm natural laws. It isn't a communicable disease but a phenomena dictated by a set of principles begun at the beginning of time and space.
European scientists, working at a facility in Chile, have announced the discovery of 32 new planets outside the Solar System, including several within the size range of Earth.
