Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

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  1

  williamspurlock

  02/09/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  First, while I agree that it's a shame that we can no longer tinker with our cars, remember that the average car gets 2 to 3 times the mileage that it did back then. My primary problem with your idea is the community of nitwit hackers out there. I worry, and take all possible precautions when I plug my computer into the net, and if it crashes it's just annoying. The idea of plugging my car into the net and having some hacker take control of it is terrifying. If it crashes I might be dead, and I can't make a backup of me.

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  2

  ejhonda

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  It's only enjoyable to kick #1 in the shins

  Who wants to beat up on the also-rans? Who cares about issues impacting the rich & snooty? Toyota's problems get way more traction with the public because it involves the #1 automobile manufacturer, and it impacts Joe Six Pack.
  
  The problem with many of these innovations is they introduce more complexity, and thus more chance for failure, into systems. Which is more likely to fail: A mechanical dipstick to check your oil, or BMW's electronic oil level sensor? The electronic version is convenient, as long as it works. But I guarantee you the mechanical dipstick is far superior in reliability over the long haul.
  
  If we can't figure out how to properly secure email so it isn't 90% penis enlargement offers, then we sure as hell aren't going to be able to safely hook our vehicles to the 'net.

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  3

  MichP

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  I'm Sure They Thought About It

  Of course they want you to go to the dealer for fixes. Besides the liability if a hacker got into their patch system, they keep their dealers happy. Service = revenue.

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  4

  lylelwr

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  I disagree with the statement that we can't possibly make simple, reliable cars. Cars do not HAVE to have complex electronic systems just to run things like the throttle and brakes. If you want to add electronic wiz bang, do it to the stereo system and leave my brakes alone.

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  5

  rgk@...

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  Costly Window treatment

  I recall a side window dropping off the track, after buying my first car in the 60's. Pop off the door panel, reseat thew glass, reattach panel and put crank handle back on. Good to go at Zero $. About 2 years ago the passengers window dropped off track. (power windows, Pontiac Grand AM, glass not damaged.). Took it in and a day later, plus rental car, it cost well over $600. $128 per hour labor plus 2 different computer control units.
  Give me crank handles and wing windows any day.
  
  I won't talk to them about the clicking from the turn signals, because then they have to mess with the costly air bag.
  
  Where does it stop !

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  6

  DadsPad

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  the problem with software upgrades/patches

  is that they often are not, necessarily, tested properly. As we have all experienced, the latest and greatest software can change things not related with the problem the patch addresses. The patch may fix the brakes, but one headlight blinks constantly, or something else.

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  7

  bigpicture

  02/10/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  These kinds of issues are caused by applying the "fly by wire" technology to applications
  that are HIGH RISK like brakes and accelerator functions. Do they not remember the AirBus fiasco where there were out of control 300 passenger jets doing barrel rolls. And otherwise
  simply taking control out of the pilots hands.

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  8

  AlexKovnat

  02/11/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  I have thought for years, that the future of auto dealerships is to sell, not so much cars, as transportation services and solutions. I see nothing wrong with having to bring my car to my friendly local Toyota, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, etc., dealer every 90 days or so for software upgrades. What's the difference between that and other periodic checks and services?

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  9

  wkc

  02/11/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  I worked with a guy who used the term "technolust" when talking about things like this. I think it's relevant here because many of the features do not add to the day to day experience of driving a car that much. What they do is to differentiate it in marketing terms.
  Driving a car should be a skill that is continuously honed by applying attention to the act of driving. A mechanical accelerator that jams can be lifted by the drivers foot or the car put into neutral. Saying this is too difficult and should all be taken care of by some computer system removes the onus from the driver to drive.
  Computers have their place in vehicles but they cannot and should not try to become a chauffeur.
  The more complex vehicles become the more they will have to go back to the dealers because they are more difficult to work on (ever tried to change the headlight bulb on a Merc A class!) and the tighter you are bound to the dealership.

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  10

  ssco00

  02/11/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  Ah, those "good old days" when everything was simple and nothing went wrong. Oh, if we did all those things under the shade tree and could fix anything ourselves, it seems to follow that quite a bit did go wrong else where did we get the practice and experience? Everyone forgets that the US gumment mandates both both mileage and low emissions. One or the other would be relatively simple, but BOTH at the same time is not. And, the consumer wants a car to start easily in the worst of winter and wants it to warm up quickly and not stumble and stall for the first 15 minutes or so.
  The last ten years I worked before retiring and moving to a warm place I kind of reverse engineered vehicle electrical systems for GM light trucks and drew schematic diagrams of all for the service manuals. A complete set for the platform could be four volumes representing about 4000 pages. Schematics were needed to help service personnel diagnose electrical problems. These were so much in demand, they eventually published a separate complete collection of schematics for the platform. That would run 150 to 200 pages and didn't require a wheelbarrow to move it to a work station. It was pretty popular.
  How do door windows go off track? I have been driving more than 50 years and never has that happen. My Volvo has electronic everything, gives great performance with high mileage, has a large cargo space that I put to good use moving here, and the seats adjust to allow 800 mile driving days without discomfort or fatigue. I doubt that there was any car of the "good old days" that would do any of that. And, 50 years ago, there were far fewer cars on the road, people drove fewer miles per year at lower speeds than today but had numerically more fatalities than we do today thanks to the passenger protection engineered into the design of modern vehicles.
  
  Neither this performance or protection is an add on product, they must both be treated as systems, and engineered from the ground up, not done by gosh and by golly. They are not simple and cannot be. Care requires the efforts of knowledgeable technicians using proper diagnostic tools and, of course, good service manuals with accurate schematics.

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  11

  alterego1701

  02/22/10 | Report as spam

  RE: Prius recall pales next to faulty software in Mercedes Sensotronic brakes

  I'm with the "keep it simple" shade tree mechanic crowd. I'd pay more than a new Mercedes cost if I could buy a car that was as mechanical, and as repairable, as the ones from the 1950s-1980s. I'm still driving a pair of 1980s diesel Mercedes vehicles and intend to keep them until rust takes them from me. There's nothing new I'd even want to buy. They've both got over 350,000 miles on them. And when something does go wrong occasionally, it's a hardware part. I can identify it, put a wrench on it, take it off, and put a new one on. Or, more often than not, take it apart and *repair* it, not just replace it.
  
  These silly computerized things... it's too expensive, all other things aside. Not everybody can afford to rush to the dealership for a dealer-only $1000 computer that may or may not fix the problem, when they could fix a simpler car at home in their garage for free except for the reasonable parts.
  
  This new stuff is fine for the first two or three years. But then what? My Mercedes fleet is a 1982 and a 1986. Where will *these* new cars be when they are 24 and 28 years old? I'll be shocked if even one is running. And there certainly won't be "software updates at the dealership" for them.
  
  Cars, like every other appliance, should still be built with the capacity to make repairs and keep running them infinitely, unless there's body damage or something other than "just becoming obsolete." Some of us aren't spending every dime we own constantly making car payments, paying for depreciation and interest, and some of us would happily spend more money than new cars are selling for today to get one that was built to last ten years, and then be rebuilt and last another ten.