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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Adding solar panels would not do much to charge this cars batteries. It might just help power the on board equipment, but in no way would charge the batteries enough to drive much further than a mile or two. You would need a solar panel that at least covers the car 10 times to add enough juice to get you going somewhere.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Do you realize 85% of our electricity is generated by coal? You are driving a car that is indirectly , (inefficiently), powered by coal.
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06/21/10 | Reported as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
coulter-An alternative energy charging grid would be the ultimate evolution,but for now do you realize that coal fired powerplants are much more efficient at converting fuel to energy than an I.C.E.? I hope so because that is the point for now.As dirty as they are they are much cleaner than all the individual ICEs out there burning gasoline.Look at the conversion tables and study them,rather than listening to right wing radio science
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Alright Ms. Gage- you're off the hook... this review was much better than the first one. I hope I get a chance to drive this car someday.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Bleah.
Steam-powered cars. With modern technologies, cermet and carbon fibre constructions, we could have steam-powered cars chugging down the road. Fuel? No problem. Wood alcohol made from the waste of sawmills and construction sites. Or diesel. Or coal. Or wood cut from the side of the road. Talk about "energy independence!".
And when the econazis cut off your electricity because you've used more than *they* think you should, you can hook it up to your house and be truly energy independent!
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, this isn't about energy independence, or providing cheaper power, or individual choice, or even energy diversity... this is about bending knee at the altar of the Earth-Worship religion.
"Yes, yes, it's a cute little car, and Mommy Earth will be so grateful she'll fire off another tsunami or hurricane or volcano and murder tens of thousands more of her 'children'."
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
All car companies should be making these kinds of care by now.
They just can't seem to think out of the box. What a shame.
I want one and so do many.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
There is a disconnect here when considering thermal efficiency. A carbon based electric generator can get to 40% thermal efficiency or a little more before considering inefficiencies in distribution, storage, and conversion. The IC engine has been at 40% since the '50s, and the CI engine has been at 50% since the '30s.
The old generation Prius returns 30%+ at 75 MPH on the freeway and consumes far less energy on a trip from SF to LA than a corresponding Tesla, which needs to be recharged 6 times to make the same trip.
Electric operators generate electricity at an optimum combination of cost and pollution whether it is a high load scenario in the middle of a hot summer day or a lower load scenario. That means the electricity to recharge the electric vehicle is at best more polluting and higher cost than any other. IC engined vehicles are SULEV or PZEV emissions level, which is less than carbon based electric generators.
See the downloadable spreadsheet at http://bit.ly/b5xI64 which has a lot more information, plus you can model various combinations of IC, PHEV, and EV vehicle energy consumption.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
Electric cars are great, but...
...current battery recharging technology is impractical. Compared
to few minutes it rakes to refuel a gasoline powered car on the
road, recharging an electric car's batteries takes hours. This
"refueling" issue makes battery powered cars too impractical for
anything other than short trips around town. Perhaps hydrogen
fuel cell powered cars are a better solution since their refueling
times are comparable to gasoline powered cars.
Harry Hiles
hbhTech.com
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
Aren't we supposed to conserve electricity?
Every summer we in Ontario are told we should be turning our air conditioners back to reduce the strain on the power grid. Adding electric cars to the mix will only mean more electricity consumed, increased chances of brownouts and blackouts and higher electricity prices.
It might be a nice idea but they need a better one.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Actually I do have a 240 outlet in my garage as the laundry machines are there. Any driving I undertake from here usually runs 40 to 75 miles by the time I get back as this is a sprawling metropolitan area. Since I do not go out every day, charging from solar panels on the garage roof would provide most of the power I would need given our 330 days of sunshine in the typical year. (This is not called the Valley of the Sun without reason.) The question would be just how large an area of PV cells I would need and how long it would take to make that economical.
I also wonder how well the air conditioning system works on this car. That could take a lot of power and reduce the range quite a bit. Right now the outside temp is 100 degrees and with summer nearly here it will start to get hot soon. If the price were reduced by about 2/3, and I don't really need an electric Lotus with Ferrari performance, It might actually work for me much better than for most other people.
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06/21/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
@Harry.Hiles
As for the time it takes to recharge, an electric car could use a zinc
slurry battery. You pump charged zinc slurry into the tank, it flows
through the battery and off you go.
When you need to recharge pump out the used electrolyte for
recharging and pump in fresh.
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06/22/10 | Reported as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
The Ultimate Business and Investing Solution.
I've developed a financial arbitrage, that allowed me to developed a new business model.
The model allows the buyer to receive a 100% rebate on anything they buy. The model also allows a buyer that financed a product/service to have their monthly payments paid by the business model. The model decreases any business expenses up to 20% a year.
Basically, the model can make all the financed payments of the tesla or any electric car, That means you buy, and don't have to pay.
Searching for a business partner.
Thomas Adair
thomasadair@live.com
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
Horse and Buggy, that will never work?
Honestly, I think if someone suggested in this forum that you might be able to travel by horse and buggy, there would be people in the forum claiming that it is impossible. The range would be too limited. Lack of infrastructure. You would need horse swapping-stations. And obviously that new buffalo power vehicle is better suited.
EVs are coming. They have different strengths and limitations than ICE cars. So it will be different. You will "fill your gas tank" every day, not once per week. Therefore range will not be quite the issue that people think it is.
Granted, you will not be driving longer trips in your EV. For that we have either the Chevy Volt or your other vehicle (perhaps a Prius).
As for the availability and cleanness of our electricity supply, these issues can be dealt with. Electric companies know how to balance loads (with our help) and add capacity. Oh, and the added capacity can come from renewables, if we have the will to push for it.
On the other hand, you can wait until gasoline is $10/gallon and then you can as us again, so how does you electric car work? At that point, you will be more respective.
I have seen this mind-shift before. I purchased a Prius in 2006 and found a lot of people hostile to the idea (strange, why do they feel threatened by my purchase?). Then when gasoline went to $4/gallon, people came to me to ask more about it.
The Prius works. EVs work. horse and buggy work. Keep an open mind and don't assume one or two limitations makes a technology useless.
Later
John C. Briggs
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Regarding fueling the Tesla. The closest comparable car to the Tesla is the Lotus Elise that is is based on. Fuel costs for the Lotus over twenty years (it drinks premium and delivers 25-30 MPG) are higher than the cost of a solar array sufficient to charge a Tesla. I have an Elise, and I have a 2kW solar array on the roof (and I don't live in the valley of the sun) and I have run the numbers. It would be cheaper for me to "fuel" a Tesla off my roof than it would be to fuel my Elise at the pump.
It would be far cheaper to fuel a Tesla off the grid, but our local grid is coal-based.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
This is a great improvement for the Tesla but I still think they need
to get that price down a bit to make more affordable for all.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I own a Tesla. Roadster #455. I've had it over a year. I love it! I commute in it 4 days a week from Portola Valley to the city. It's perfect for that. In fact I prefer it to my old car because now I never, ever, have to be late again because I forgot to get gas when my tank was at 1/4 full. I just think about how many minutes of my life I've gotten back this year, not having to stand around at gas stations waiting for my car to fill up! Plus I can drive in the car pool lane whenever I want!
The only thing I was a bit worried about is that it is not a classic, comfortable, commute car, but I got used to getting in and out of it. And it makes my 45-mile commute everyday a pleasure. This car blows away the MB SL500, of which I owned a 2000, 2004 and a 2006. It's obviously not a car for everybody, but I believe Tesla got it right - they identified the "killer app" of electric cars (unmatched acceleration) and built the right model for the early adopters, like me. Soon, they will have a product offering for those "crossing the chasm". They are going public soon and I wish them well.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
electric options are great...but...the charging is still an issue. What tesla needs is to put a small turbine engine in the car powering an on board generator. turbines will run on anything from vodka to bio fuels based on the tune. set it up for optimum efficiency and you could conceivably get over 100 mpg on organically grown fuels. an all electric car is great for around town but don't try to drive it across the Nevada desert a hybrid type combination is still the best bet.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I've driven many rented Prius and even that humble Hybrid EV has great acceleration and performs very well on the freeways of Los Angeles (and can deliver nearly 50 mpg at 75 MPH). But for pure-electric vehicles, the recharge cycle is prohibitive. You won't charge the Tesla in 3.5 hours off of your electric dryer outlet. The rapid charge requires 60 Amperes. When you do the math, if you want an EV that will have the range of a typical IC powered automobile on a single tank of gas, most home electric service could not handle the necessary current flow. Even if ALL of it was directed to the car (no TV, A/C, Microwave or lights in the house), an 8 hour recharge of a 400 mile range EV is impractical without serious upgrade of home service, the national electric grid and generation capacity. The Tesla is a superb vehicle, but it imposes compromises in life style and use for the near future.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Of course when you figure the cost of battery replacement, it costs the same as if you were driving a car getting around 4 mpg. With this in mind, a Ford Focus and 10 dollar a gallon gas would be a real bargain compared to these electrics. It would also avoid the extreme pollution caused by making batteries for those electrics and semi-electrics.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
@wordmaster1. The battery cost is an issue, but the combination of battery cost and electricity cost for an EV is equal to the current cost of gasoline. Consider the following
EV
Battery =$8000, 100,000 mile life of battery = $0.08/mile
Electricity cost = $0.02/mile
Total cost $0.10/mile
Gas Car
$3/gallon, 30 mpg = $0.10/mile.
So the EV cost and the Gas car costs are the same, today. In the future, if the price of batteries come down and the price of gasoline goes up, the EV is a real winner.
As for your glib example $10/gallon and 29.5 mpg (ford focus average), that would be $0.34/mile and no bargain.
Perhaps the thing that is difficult for people is that the battery is an up-front cost whereas gasoline is paid for each week. If I say a battery is $8000, you might be shocked. However, if you spend $10,000 in gasoline for your focus, you might be even more shocked ($10,000, 100,000 miles, 29.5 mpg, $3/gallon.)
Later
John C. Briggs
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I have been suggesting solar panels on roofs, hoods, and trunk decks to these car companies for years. Always I get the same excuse. 'Impractical'. Never mind that Ovashinsky's solar panels can take almost unlimited punishment, holes drilled through, etc., and still produce electricity. That child is right, solar panels can charge the car all day while the owner is at work. And a car port lined with Ovashinsky's panels could charge plug-ins as well.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
What everyone is forgetting is that from 1900-2000, the world (mostly us) consumed 50% of the earth's oil. Since we are consuming at a much faster rate now, the other 50% won't last another 100 years. We have no choice but to conserve, increase efficency, and develop solar, wind, and geothermal to create an all electric world.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
As long as luxury is the main feature of any car, EVs will always be a
novelty.
No AC, No Elect. Windows, etc. Seat warmers?
But once they perfect that tic tac size nuclear power cell, then we
might see some progress.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
If you really want to see something exciting in cars that get 100 MPG
check ou the team of high school students in Philadelphia that have
reached the finals of the X prize competition. These kids have
outshown some of the best & brightest. Schools like MIT are out &
these kids from an inner city school, West Philadelphia High School,
are still in it. They are called the West Philly Hybrid X Team.
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
OK, Telsa, Volt, and Nissan LEAF all have AC. So let's not imply that EVs don't have AC, because EVs do have AC.
As for the solar panels. Please do some math before you start claiming that you have the solution to our transportation needs. I have 16 solar panels on the roof of my home. These would charge the Chevy Volt for 40 miles per day. If I use the Ovonics panels, it would require 32 solar panels. Each panel is like 5 feet by 2.5 feet in size.
In other words, you need a lot of surface area to charge a car. However it might be perfect for the little old lady that only drives to church on Sunday.
Later
John C. Briggs
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06/22/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Good point mkrupsky:
Going forward how do we make electric cars that can provide Air-Con and Heating. Think Midwest winters and Arizona summers. Is there a slick work around?
Even a demister seems a little extravagant from a battery...
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06/23/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Respomse to msd1107 . . . you quote and provide a spreadsheet by "David" at some other forum as though we should consider "David" the almighty of knowledge. Who the heck is David, what is his background, and what supports his numbers?
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06/23/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I am of the thinking that electric car technology needs to be
measured by decades to more easily see progress. A decade
ago, a full electric car would be attractive only to the most
eccentric, with stellar price and unattractive performance. This
decade we have Tesla and a few years back there was a full
electric called a T-Zero (not sure if they still exist). Availability was
there, albeit still pricey. Okay, so in this decade battery
technology improved, the engineering improved, awareness and
availability has improved, and more people are starting to think
seriously in this direction. Fairly safe to assume these things will
certainly improve in another decade. Although the "green"
arguments will probably live on.
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06/24/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Something not mentioned in the article, or the comments that I
could see. For those looking for something less sport and more
daily. Tesla does have a sedan, the Model S, coming out at
about $50,000. Still our of my price range at the moment, but if
this is a company you'd be looking to buy from.
Website:
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/
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06/24/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
OK, I may be atypical, but:
If I could get a nice little electric (even if the acceleration were not
as impressive as this car) that would reliably run over 300 miles
per charge and charge in under 6 hours (my need for sleep) for
the $18000 my Saturn VUE cost I would be THRILLED! Commute
to work would be painless, slow trips cross-country would be
limited only by the availability of motels with outlets.
The only real factor that would eliminate it from consideration
relates to how difficult it is for my wife to get in and out. (With
wheelchair space: thus the current VUE - easy for wife to
enter/exit and storage for folded WC)
While auto AC (Air Conditioning) is nice, I can live and drive fine
without that. I was nearly 20 before I first drove a car with AC.
Neither my cars nor my motorcycles had AC until 1997! (Around
1995 it became difficult to BUY one without AC here.)
I admit, AC has me a bit spoiled (I now have central in my house),
but I do not make the decision about what to buy to drive based
upon whether it comes with AC or not.
Getting off Petrol based fuel is a major point. Comfort, in general,
matters. Reduced pollution of the air and water is major. It is
SAFE and RAPID TRANSPORTATION that is primary! AC is not
even on my list.
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06/27/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I remember that around 1980 two men made a car that ran on batteries with a simple concept. I may be wrong but I believe there were about 8-10 batteries for the power source. These batteries were recharged by a simple concept...a generator in the car just like in the cars today. NO plug-ins.....no external power source needed. As the story goes, they were approached by the oil companies and given a proposal they couldn't refuse. Take the money and disappear. My question is simple ! Why can't this same idea be applied again.
It doesn't matter what type of gasoline is in a car today, without the generator and battery, the car is uselss. A simple generator, possibly larger than the one in cars now, can be the power source to charge the batteries for the power source to the car. The 8, 10, or 12 batteries replace the gasoline engine but the old concept of a generator recharging the batteries is the same.
I know, your question is , "what powers the generator?" A small gasoline engine about the size of a lawn mower engine which takes about 32 ozs of gas at a cost of about 62 cents. Equation: gal = 128 ounces divided by 4 = 32 divided into $2.50 gal. = $0.62.
The small gas engine will need to be refilled about 4 times per week at a cost of only $2.50 (or the current price of gas per gal).
Simple solution, low cost, no external power source needed.....Question? Why hasn't anyone taken this idea and applied to today's transportation and auto problem?
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06/29/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
I congratulate the designers and owners for their courage to launch this innovative product. I know the challenges of launching ?revolutionary? products as I am launching a motorcycle you can drive from a wheelchair www.mobilityconquest.com .
Like the Tesla, the test drive continues to be the leading trigger in the sales process to help "inquires" become "leads" and ultimately "buyers". Our buyer persona has similar traits but also include those with physical disabilities.
I would enjoy learning more from Tesla so we can avoid some of the same challenges they faced.
Mark Allen Roberts
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06/29/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
6-29-2010
We are unfortunately assuming we will not inundate our blue green world with co2s before we may recover control of environmental change expectations. Careful usage of energy might be a high concern for all of today?s auto dreamer-users. PV seems a reasonable hope? Fusion seems great. Our beloved GWB helped to focus billions of USD into the research. Expectations for fusion might be twenty five years. MIT states 9 degrees C. by 2100. Today we (the USA) brought the world and a solar growing Europe close to their knees with the perpetual need to consume for unnecessary goodies, via house sales and bad bonds. Might our monies be best spent with ecological technology for the fastest recovery? But the ocean Gyre and plastic contamination of our diminishing natural food supply might be controlled by GWB and aquaculture too? I am sorry to boohoo a great piece of technology, we need rewards and consumerism to continue but reward the less affluent with an upward involvement congratulating the local wealthy within each local community for spending and installing solar upon their businesses and upon each of the many personal residences, some of us may own. Maybe a supply chain for sale, installation and maintenance of solar electricity (and Hydrogen should we get that one right) will develop sooner than we care to dare or hope for, if toys are temporarily restrained. If you get a great toy are you to strive for such a toy too. If you are competing with that consumer attitude.... Toys are a great reward when all is fine. Our parents stopped a war in our world more than once, with sacrifice. We need togetherness and vision for a global recovery type of goal. I am worried for my children also, so please cool might be reinforcing the correct restraint for the betterment of all of us. Each generation has a duty to our world.
ChangeItOrDrownIt
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06/30/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Does anyone know what the post above mine is talking about?
Did somebody give Rush Limbaugh another Xanax and a
SmartPlanet account???
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07/02/10 | Report as spam
RE: Another Tesla test drive - this time on the highway
Nice car, but I'm troubled by the build process.
The US Government has given Tesla Motors $450 million to help build this car. Is it just me, or is there a tremendous opportunity for fraud? The owners could siphon off several million for themselves, declare bankruptcy in a couple of years, and retire on their "salary".
Also, do we need to be spending $450 million taxpayer dollars so the rich can purchase two-seater sports cars?
Hate to rain on Tesla's parade.
So many of you were disappointed by my supervised, 10-minute test drive of a Tesla Roadster around a shopping center last month that I asked Tesla for another drive — and they agreed.
