Discussion on:

Sunrise in the desert

Chris, As usual a great article. Hopefully, the US will someday develop an integrated and intelligent strategy and approach to its energy deficits - and especially all of those critical commodities dependent on our current petroleum dependent NPK/food paradigm.

Another interesting article with profound implications. It points out one of the pitfalls of democracy, versus a state managed by a small number of people who have a vision for the future. With a more business centered approach to government, these countries are making an investment in the future that actually is helping to bolster their present economies as well. We should be doing the same thing in the US, but unfortunately our leaderless government is busy squabbling over the best approach to achieving bankruptcy in the next few years. Our star is fading as a world leader, and we don't even have the foresight to do anything about it. We deserve what we get!

Tyrannies always work better for the people. The U.S. should undo the constitution and the republic, and start all over again.

The trouble with an ill-informed democracy is that it easily becomes an ochlocracy -- that is, rule by the ignorant mob. As long as the USA included slavery, it was only a democracy for the non-slave class. But speaking of ignorance, how many times have you read that plutonium is the deadliest element in the world? Radium is about 24000/1600, = fifteen times as radioactive, because that's the ratio of the half lives. But radon's half life is 3.8 days, so it takes about 153 grams of radium to match the radioactivity of one milligram of radon.
Anyway, the other trouble is the power of the plutocracy. The chief media of information are sorely beholden to the advertisers who fund them, or in the case of PBS, the large organizations that by their funding "make this program possible". For those who don't know, plutocracy is government by money. Indeed, the holders of financial power, in the USA and elsewhere, tend to limit our freedoms and take our money at least as much as the elected government and those whom that government appoints.

One of the problems is probably the lobby groups, all looking after their own financial interests. And good results for this quarter is more important for most companies than anything else.

Another country whose leaders seems to have a longer term vision is China.......

dcr100:
Fully support your point of view!

Of course, a small number of people holding the power can turn sour (as some in this talkback already argue by mentioning Tyranny), but this report is a direct proof that sometimes it just might work, much better than anything else we have tried already. Ultimately, it boils down to - what will the small group of people do with the power they possess!

My arguments are often about an educated monarchy which, is able to carry out a sound plan for the future of it's nation as a whole, instead of having constant squabble in every single inception due to conflicts of interest. Sometimes having many leaders is not necessarily better than having only one (or few), but made up from the right ingredients. It is a gamble, true, but when it works, it works like magic in every aspect involved.

I so wish people would understand the simple principles these individuals have applied, in hope of securing their countrys place (in the future too) as a dominating energy provider at times when their natural resources will eventually run out.

I might be naive in placing my trust in such noble beginings, but rather do the revolutionary instead of sitting infinitely on the worn-out throne (like a grumpy old man dying of cancer alone), distrusting everything else around him.

CREDIT: (Pink Floyd) ...like an old man dying of cancer alone...

Nice one fo128

Benevolent monarchies have been very few in the history of man.

No monarchy has ever been better for democracy than a real democracy.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

People who don't learn from the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. You sound so very ignorant.

Power does corrupt I agree, but the power of the Corporations (Financial might, extending over into to Political realm), is exactly that - the rule of the corrupted FEW! So how come you keep fighting for, and defending all that you are so against. In my opinion, it is all going back to Communism, but via a different route! After reading most of my posts, you probably know why - HUMAN GREED!

What I liked in this report was to see that when you remove and eliminate some of the typical human (call them negative) factors, the decision of the few can become a very attractive alternative, and a great example to follow over the constant unending battle to reach a consensus between different agendas.
And one thing is certain, Democracy is overrated! How do we know that? Look at the tentacles of the Corporations enveloping and ever-more (for their own purposes) controlling most of the Political / Government decisions.

I have always said it - the rule or the decision of the majority is not always the best one, and Democracys fundamentals are based exactly on that principle! You ponder on that for a while!

And to finaly sum it up - please be aware, that it is easy to label people ignorant, but what is the point!? If I recall history well, during the evolution of the humankind most non-conformist and a big number of academic personas were all labeled as Ignoramus, non-believers and so forth, simply because of their revolutionary and out-of-time beliefs and visions. By having this argument here and now, are we repeating History again - you and I?

Amen.

I'm not sure what to make of the article's failure to even mention UAE's (or Saudi Arabia's) nuclear programs, despite the fact that they are doing far more in the nuclear area than they are with renewables.

It discusses 10 MW solar plants, but doesn't talk about the fact that UAE will build almost 5000 MW of nuclear capacity before 2020, compared to 1500-1800 MW of renewable *capacity* (which will operate ~25% to ~33% of the time, vs. ~90% for nuclear). In other words, UAE's annual nuclear generation (in kW-hrs) in 2020 will be ~10 times as much as its generation from all renewables. The Saudis are planning to build 16 large nuclear plants.

I agree with these nations' decision to move away from oil and gas for domestic power generation, and understand their reasons for their doing so (some of which are discussed in the article). However, the truth is that nuclear is their main focus in terms of non-fossil power generation, and their shift away from oil and gas power generation.

Quite so. Actually I believe UAE is building 6000 MW of nuclear capacity. But renewables were the focus of the conference and nuclear was only mentioned in passing; it's not what Masdar is about. Likewise the exhibitors were primarily solar and water companies. I didn't see any nuclear companies represented. For what it's worth, Shams 1 is 100 MW (not 10), and the next planned PV system is also 100 MW.

The best example of how a nation shut down its nukes is Germany. Germany began a feed-in tariff policy that requires Utilities to pay $0.54 kwh for 20 years to homeowners who harvest solar & feed it onto the grid. Germany discovered it was making as much solar energy as from nukes, so in 2011 they shut down half their nukes. They will shut down all nukes by 2022. They will shut down all coal fired plants, gas & oil by 2030. By 2050 Germany will be 100% solar & renewable. I have an organization, ONE, that is pushing California to achieve 100% solar by 2031. Youtube: paul8kangas

If you live in the desert, you can save on air conditioning in summer by running it off of the sunshine that's causing it. In California, and much or the Middle East, I suppose the same applies. But at night, in winter, it isn't quite as effective. $0.54/kwh -- Surely you mean the worst example of how a nation shut down its nukes? How many thousand megawatts of capacity did they shut down? How many thousand megawatts of coal and gas burning?
In France, the highest rate for energy per kWh is about $0.18, plus a standing annual charge of around a hundred Euros, depending upon how big the customer's maximum power demand is, in kW. There is in fact a nuclear renewable -- no, two technologies whereby nuclear energy resources can be made both renewable and sustainable. You can breed fissile plutonium from non-fissile U-238, or fissile U-233 from thorium, Th-232. Nuclear reactors are already reliable, and so much cleaner than coal that only those lamentably ignorant of chemistry, physics, and the actual data would shut down nuclear before coal.
The fact is, that wind turbines require "spinning reserve" for when the wind drops even 5%, and in the USA and no doubt elsewhere, that is supplied by gas turbines that are constantly burning just to keep spinning, and opening a throttle serves to supply the increased demand. The power of the wind, and therefore of wind turbines, is proporrtional to the cube of the wind speed. If you live in California, and Paul kangas succeeds in achieving 100% solar power plants, I recommend you buy a VERY large battery backup for your refrigerator and freezer. Don't run for governor, it only took a mild winter for the recall of Governor Davis, who was blamed for the wildly overpriced peak demand capacity that was caused by the absence of snow behind the hydroelectric dams.
A gigawatt year of electric energy from fissile uranium or plutonium requires less than a ton of the fissile isotope. The same quantity of energy from coal or hydrocarbons requires about a million tons. If it's coal, that actually releases several tons of uranium and thorium oxides! Probably half of that goes freely up the smokestacks as particulates.
To provide a gigawatt-year of energy from a fixed field of photovoltaic cells, in a permanently cloudless sky, you'd need a capacity of 3000 MW. Two gigawatts if they rotate to follow the sun. But in neither case do they keep the lights on at night.

This shows that the UAE has better sense than the USA. Presumably even with solar availability higher than any state in the USA other than California, Texas, and others with square miles of deserts, they realise that nuclear power is indeed clean, safe, and compact compared with fossil carbon and hydrocarbons, and that the Industrial Revolution was about getting away from so-called "renewables" like wind, wood, sun, and even high mountain rainfall.

Achieving 7% renewables by 2020 is not that ambitious. States like California and Colorado have 33% and 30% renewable mandates respectively by 2020, and they are on target to achieve those goals. In 2011 the US got about 5% of its electricity from renewables (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3 ); it's probably one or two percent higher now. Much electricity production in the US has shifted from coal to natural gas, which in the short to medium term results in a net reduction in CO2.

The point is that if having a national mandate is seen as the only way to achieve gains in renewables, then Abu Dhabi is not that great an example. It's not doing any better than the more fragmented and contentious US in its efforts. Perhaps the messy process of democracy isn't that much worse after all.

Bear in mind, those CA and CO include hydropower. In fact the vast majority is hydro. Not the case in UAE

When they invest a little in making a rainforest in the dessert they won't be needing money for water, by selling the children's crude oil. The water wil be falling from the sky, only if.

I suppose you could plant the trees, desalinate enough water to water them for 40 or 50 years until they get established but I really doubt it would become a self sustaining forest ever in that location.

I have read this type of investment in the middle east for the past 6 years from various countries including Saudi Arabia. They are investing large sums of money in the alternative energy sector. One wonders if there is something that they know that we still have not figured out yet? Running out of oil? Collapse of US dollar? Any ideas?????

And we don't. I.E., how long they can continue to run their economies on revenues from those reserves. We might want to smoke that in our prediction pipes and get a move on building out the electrical, renewable energy infrastructure while fossils are still relatively cheap, because they won't be that much longer. If they feel the need to move, how much more should we???

but it's in the oil companies interest to obfuscate the numbers, bring in their own optimistic predictions about shale oil, undiscovered reserves, etc into the overall numbers. Short term, more money to be made by high consumption. And so those numbers are also what the politicians see.

Thanks for the article Chris. The photographs were awesome as well. I'm curious though, What did the water taste like from the hotel tap? Was it a cold, deep well, mineral rich taste like in Nelson Co. VA, , or a bland, reverse osmosis lab sample like LasVegas?

I had read years back that the Middle East was reinvesting their increasing oil wealth in Renewable energy and water desalination + distribution. I think the cultural difference driving UAE's forward vision is manifested in "the Ownership" of the natural resource.

In the USA, we do not look at the oil fields of Texas, the Bakken tar sands or any of the shale gas finds as property of ALL the American citizenry. If we did, we would be receiving our yearly checks like the Alaskans do. (equal distribution of the costs and the profits). I've heard it's common knowledge the Saudis and Egyptians share the wealth too.

They've been out in that desert much longer than we've been roaming around North America so they understand the value of time. I for one am glad to see their build out a sustainable society to be around a lot longer.

The tap water tasted much more Las Vegas than VA. A bit chemical tasting. Not great, not awful. And 8-oz plastic bottles of water were ubiquitous. I wondered what they do with them all when they're empty...

You are quite right to point up the ownership issue. That's fundamental to the difference in strategy. Here we have resource ownership at a single person's discretion. There they have a long tradition of stewardship and obligation to entire families/tribes/nations.

"It may seem strange that the worlds seventh-largest oil producer, pumping over 3 million barrels per day of liquid fuels and over 5 billion cubic feet per day of gas, would see the attraction of investing in renewables, but thats only where the ironies begin in this part of the world."

I seem to see this line a lot, but I think it is less ironic and more good business. If you have control of a limited resource, and people are willing to pay good money for said resource, than it makes a whole lot of sense to use as little of that resource as possible, because the less you use, the more you can sell.

The World is going to Renewable Energy at a very fast rate.

compared to how long it took oil, coal and your favorite nu-safe and very dangerous Nuclear power.

Renewable Energy

Solar, Wind, Hydro, Geothermal and others should be on the front cover of every Science Book kindergarten through high school.

Leaders and Schools in all Nations need to Teach more on Solar and Renewable Energy.

When this Old World starts getting you down. From Pollution the cost of OIL,
Heating Fuel,The Fuel you put in your Vehicles, You Electric Bills from
cooling air conditioners and lights not to speak of the Evil. The TAX that all
Governments Federal, State, County and City put on everything they can think of.
They are supposed to serve us. Not put a burden on its people. That they are
elected to serve all the people you, not their own Pocket Books.


The Wicked keep putting higher taxes on everything. Making it a Heavy
Burden on many that are already struggling just to put food on the table.
Too many Americans and People of all Nations have lost their home to the tax collector or to foreclosures
from the unjust Bankers greed and their Government leaders. More are out of work and lost their homes then
in the GREAT DEPRESSION, in the last ten years. All Americans and many Nations
need good jobs and more of them. Not more TAXES and Wars.


There is a Industry that will employ workers and is growing by more than 50%
every year. There is a clear way for all up on the roof the Sun Light is free
fuel from GOD. Some wicked in Government have been backing Coal, Oil, Gas and
the Nuclear industries for too many years. These kickbacks to them were called
Subsidizing Industry Technology and high paid scientist. Most all Wise Men and smart Economist, Environmentalists and good at heart Scientist call this padding their pockets and subsidizing back to the
Stone Age.


This might even been funny in the 1960s. If it were a Fred Flintstones and
Barny Rubble Movie. About How to aggressively systematically work with the rich
to Pollute Ground Water quality to the point it is unsafe to drink or use.
So to they make a law you can only buy water from their pipe line. And to make
the air we breathe full of Toxic Gases, Sulfur Dioxide and more Radioactive
and Acid Rain. Injuring all living things on Earth.


With Fred Flintstones to the Rescue. To help create a Healthier Environment.
For all Future Generations. By spotlighting Renewable Energy and Free Energy
like Wind and Solar. On his and his neighbor Barny Rubbles roof. Even though
the greedy wicked would do everything to stop or slow them down.


Just imagine a dream that a 100 years ago one of the smartest man to ever
live had. A dream after working with Sun Light. That all on Earth would use
Free Energy Solar Energy.


That Dream also shared by a man that dreamed this over 2,250 years ago.
Both These men showed the world in their days. That this dream of Free Energy
Solar Energy Worldwide was very possible. Both of these two wise men had
first hand worked and researched their experiments for not just days, weeks
put for many years.


One of these men used chalk on Black Board the others board was a black
stone table or floor covered with white sand and used a stick. One of these
two Brilliant men had Kings from all most every Kingdom on Earth come to him
for advice.


The other went to almost every nation on Earth. Freely on his own dime
Teaching All that had ears to hear. He would win the Nobel Prize for doing so.
For his work on Solar Energy. Only after years of doing research and when most
Scientist on Earth would not take the nomination for the Nobel Prize in 1921 and knew
it clearly belonged to this Brilliant Scientist, this Brilliant scientist was then awarded it in
1922 for the 1921 year.


Now if this was just a Pretend TV Show or a Movie from a dream. This would
be a great Sci Fi Story Line. In the 1960s or even better today. Sci Fi story
Movie or dream No.


All that i Have told you did actually really happen. Albert Einstein won the
Nobel Prize for what? When Government leaders asked him to go on stage. To
address the Scientific Community and the World. About what he was given the
Nobel Prize for. When Albert Einstein Had done so. He addressed them with his
other accomplishments. For years most Governments did not have a ear for
Einsteins Dream.


Archimedes around 250 B.C. was know most of the World over as a great
Mathematician. One of the first Scientist and Inventor of many things. Even
the first Laser Ray from the Suns Energy. Science Fiction is what you would
have though you were seeing if you could go back in time, it was real.To day
we call it The LASER, Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission. Back then it
was just called Amplification of the SUN, Archimedes Death Ray.


Thousand of years later it would be a Laser. That Albert Einstein help
make possible. That would unlock one of the first books on Earth.
The METHOD written by Archimedes. Then over more than 250 years later. When
well Faded was cut from a scroll and put into a book form, to be easier to
hide from the Romans by St. Paul. This book sold for over 2 million dollars.
In New york at Christies Auction House.


These two are at the top of the list of the Worlds Greatest Scientists,
Viewed by Scientist around the World.


Sad that for the last 25 years or so of every teacher asked no matter what
Grade k through 16. At least 80% of them did not know Archimedes. Even sadder 90%
of them could not tell you what one of the most Brilliant Scientist to ever
live on Earth. Won the Nobel Prize for.


It was for the work Albert Einstein did to show the World it could get
Free Energy, Electric from the SUN. (THE PHOTOVOLTAIC EFFECT).


You ask this question to any Military general 95% of them will get it right.
Even more surprising 99% of them will know more about Archimedes then most
Teachers on Earth. Generals know Energy is the key to Winning.

At almost one thousand to one Archimedes always won against what all knew was
impossible odds. Archimedes home town city of Syracuse was victorious against the
greatest Kingdoms Armies on earth many times. Syracuse once was one of the most
powerful cities in the World.


I can only ask you to please look into Solar Energy, Solar Power, Solar Panels
and Solar array on the internet under Images. To see and explore for your self
then you be the JURY.


More then 10 years ago the Internet became most of the Worlds Universities
Learning Platform. A Modern Day Archimedes Resource Center.


The Solar Energy Industry in the year 2010 and 2011 has leaped ahead farther and
faster then any other industry on Earth. The Solar Industry in the
United States of America alone, has grown by more than 50% in 2010 and
that number has gone up even higher for the 2011 year.


The strong benefits of Solar Energy is Clear Clean Air viewed in major cities
as improving air quality. Clean Cities. By all that use their brain for good .
View it as protecting the environment and Freedom from OIL , Coal and other Dirty Energy.


While many Governments has eased the Taxes on Renewable Energy . Some cities in
the states that these Legislators come from have
worked against these tax credits.

By doing so they are showing their true objectives. That they have stock in some
power plants and do not want to lose all that Money they have been taking out of
your pocket books for too many years. By taxing you on your Energy Bills. They want
to Control Power and Tax Everything they can. Not let People be free to get their
own power from the top of their own roofs.


By adding their own taxes to them. These wicked leaders think that this will take
away the incentives to harvest the Free Energy from the Sun.


The Public ability and awareness for all on Earth to use the Natural Solar Energy,
is Contributing to Production of Solar Energy Products. Making the Solar
Energy Industry the fastest growing on Earth. A Wealth of Free Energy From The SUN.


The more the wicked try to slow the Solar Energy Industry down, it only Enhances
involvement and the efforts of the Good at Heart.


through out History Many have tried to wipe the good from our history books.
Read the Bible Jesus will Bless you more then i can.


SolarWorld has been presenting a Einstein Award to personalities who have advanced
the use of solar energy and helped our Planet Earth.


We all need to tell all our Teachers and Leaders to use our Nations Energy more wisely
and efficient. Start to Teach all our Young about Renewable Energy Solar, Wind, and so on.


Not to forget Flintstones, Fred well there are many the one that is in front of all others
Started back in the 1970s and started a small catalog that has turned into a Wealth of
knowledge into Renewable Energy a book called REAL GOODS Solar Living Source Book.
By Mr. John Schaeffer.


The world is going more with SOLAR, Wind and Geothermal Powered Energy. The day of the need for Dirty Oil, Coal and Dangerous Nuclear Power are coming to a end fast.

The Freedom Element Living with Hydrogen That Dr. Addison Bain has showed the world will free most all of the need for the Power Grid and Oil CEO's.

Very soon most of the world will not need Oil or Dangerous and Disastrous Nuclear Power. Renewable Energy like Solar, Wind, Hydro and Geothermal are now replacing dirty Energy like Oil and Nuclear. Solar Energy is growing World Wide at a record pace.


Hybrid Cars are being sold all over the Earth. Soon Hybrid Vehicles that run on Electric /
Hydrogen, The Freedom Element. Will free the world from Oil and Unsafe Power.

Thanks to a Great Scientist
Dr. Addison Bains Years of work for our Nation and with the Space Program on Hydrogen.

The day will come when many will see Solar Panels on most everything. What Free Electric the sun makes will be used to split water into Hydrogen. The Hydrogen will be used to heat our homes and to cook on and put into are Hybrid Vehicles that will run on
(The Freedom Element). Very soon most all will be filling up their Vehicles at Home.
Free from the Suns Solar Energy. Just as Dr.Addison Bain has done for years The Fist Hydrogen Home Refueling Station in the World. That Dr. Addison Bain built by his self.


GOD Bless you for reading this.
May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
guide your Heart.

The Lords little Helper
Paul Felix Schott

This will only work if they have a feed-in tariff policy requiring the Utilities or government to pay homeowners $0.54 kwh to harvest and feed solar onto the grid.
That gives jobs, money and power to the 99%, and so decentralizes the production of solar.
Youtube: paul8kangas

Solar power is so dilute, that even if you cover your roof with solar PV panels, many of the websites recommending it warn you that you probably cannot afford enough PV to run your air conditioners. $0.54/kWh is five or six times what I pay Dominion Electric. I divided the latest estimate of the cost of a TVA nuclear power plant, including the amount it had gone over budget, by the likely (using published EIA figures) energy output in a mere 20 years, and arrived at a figure of around $0.05/kWh. The fuel costs of nuclear power are trifling, because so little fuel is needed. If you want a decentralised, low maintenance, reliable, clean power source,
I know of a local company, in Reston, that would dearly love to have a licence for their 100MW reactor design, which I could just about fit in my 1/4 acre back yard, underground, and needs no refueling for 20 years. Then they send a new or refurbished fuel core, take the old one back, remove 8% of its mass and replace it with UN-enriched uranium, and the quantity they remove is the only waste for those 20 years. Oh, I forgot to mention, the initial fuel load is 20.7 tons. It's a breeder reactor. Ten of these would supply more energy than a 1000 MW coal burner. One of them would also exceed the energy output of 70 wind turbines, 500 or 600 feet high at the blade tip, rated at 5 MW. The capacity factor for wind turbines is from 20% to 33% and I believe the high figure is exaggerated. Their capacity factor "on demand" is of course zero.

Coal and hydrocarbons, whether the latter are liquid or gaseous, create a thousand times more toxins per kilowatt-hour, or more to the point, per gigawatt-year, than nuclear fission even at the miserably inefficient level of today's once-through, no breeding, no reprocessing technology deployed in the USA. They create millions of tons of carbon dioxide, more than three million tons for every ton of carbon (C +O2 ->CO2), and even at 7 parts per thousand of raw uranium, the energy of the fissile isotope U-235 is enough to produce one fifth of our electric energy demand. After separating out perhaps 2/3 of the U-235, and then burning only half of it, and some of the Pu-239 produced by neutron capture, I calculate that the total annual fission products waste is under one hundred tons for the whole USA, probably 75 tons. Our foolish policy of no reprocessing means that that tiny amount is left mixed with about the same amount of plutonium, which is as good a nuclear fuel as the scarce U-235, and all the rest of the original uranium in the fuel rods. That's about 3,000 tons, because we use annually 25,000 tons of raw uranium oxide, and about 7/8ths of it is left in storage as "depleted" uranium hexafluoride.

Einstein's Mass to Energy equation is basic to the understanding of nuclear power, and provides the solution to the biggest problem known to the 19th century's greatest expert on thermodynamics and energy, Lord Kelvin. He was very puzzled about how the sun could have continued pouring out the energy that he calculated as "the Horsepower of the Sun".
Quite simply, the mass difference between four hydrogen nuclei and one helium nucleus is about one percent of the mass. The Sun's core slams one, two, three, then four hydrogen nuclei together, over quite a long time, and emits the mass difference as radiant energy, probably gamma rays in the innermost layers.
But we have available to us on Earth the products of far more violent activity, and it has kept our planet's core molten for almost a hundred times as long as Kelvin gallantly and laboriously estimated. When a star goes supernova, the gravitational energy of its collapsing mass synthesizes elemental nuclei that are more massive than the products of their fission. Instead of stored photosynthetic energy, which is fossil carbon, nuclear fissile isotopes, and those that can be made so, are the "fossil" remains of giant stars.
The US Navy powers its capital ships with fuel that lasts for three years or more, and fits in a very compact space, even counting the shielding. It is vastly safer to be one of the crew of a nuclear powered submarine, than the old oil-fueled ones. It is also more comfortable, even on amazingly long underwater voyages that in the not very distant past were hopelessly impossible.
Abu Dhabi bought the QE2 from its British owners. If they could fit her with nuclear engines, they could sail her again.