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So what about intellect?
Edited by JohnMcGrew@...
Updated - 16th Nov
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The MYTH of the Teen Brain
Posted by athrillofhope
29th Nov
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KISS
Interesting. Would have been better if the Professor Monterosso had used nice simple words...KISS.
Posted by RobSlack
16th Nov
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not enough
like children, teenagers are not adults, and road anger is pretty much in the realm of instinctual behavior. but why do some people institutionalize the torture of captives, engineer wars of discretion, and create toxic mortgages? those are not instinctive behaviors; they require long periods of planning and execution by adults. and why do some nations specialize in them, but not others? do some populations have more genes of one sort than others? is history therefore a matter of genes, distributed at random? it seems that many factors not considered by nicholson are at work.
Posted by LatAm
16th Nov
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Free Will
We have no choice but to accept that we have free will!
Posted by DataArchitect_MI
16th Nov
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Meaning
What is "is"?
Posted by ajrmd
16th Nov
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So what about intellect?
Intellect is what separates us from the animals. True, humans are indeed driven by impulses, but we have our intellect to counter those impulses. Most of us understand that following each and every impulse that our instincts might present is not necessarily the best course of action for our own well being, or society's.
Even teenagers possess intellect. They just choose not to use it much of the time.
I think the biggest problem is low expectations, where we discount bad behavior because it's driven by natural impulses. Doing so discounts intellect. I am really tired of the expression "being human" being used to justify bad behavior, instead of expecting better. By doing so, we're just really saying that we're no more evolved than animals.
Even teenagers possess intellect. They just choose not to use it much of the time.
I think the biggest problem is low expectations, where we discount bad behavior because it's driven by natural impulses. Doing so discounts intellect. I am really tired of the expression "being human" being used to justify bad behavior, instead of expecting better. By doing so, we're just really saying that we're no more evolved than animals.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
Updated - 16th Nov
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Interesting Points
I can not accept that there is no free will, either. I do agree that teenagers are still in development from childhood into adulthood, a process that for some can continue for longer than others (some still act childish when they are middle aged). Teenagers are also going through a time of experimentation with who they are and what they want to do; while also dealing with peer pressure.
I tend to reference movies, it is easier for people to understand the point. In the movie "A Beautiful Mind" the main character suffers from mental illness and he sees and hears people who are not real. He makes a choice to ignore his hallucinations and he checks with people who he trusts to help him verify a real person or hallucination. The same goes for alcoholics who choose to work at being sober, it is a choice and it is not easy.
I tend to reference movies, it is easier for people to understand the point. In the movie "A Beautiful Mind" the main character suffers from mental illness and he sees and hears people who are not real. He makes a choice to ignore his hallucinations and he checks with people who he trusts to help him verify a real person or hallucination. The same goes for alcoholics who choose to work at being sober, it is a choice and it is not easy.
Posted by sboverie
16th Nov
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Or how about "Forrest Gump"...
...the story of a man who was clearly suffering from mental illness, and yet was capable of character and intellect. His behavior was far superior to most of the other characters in the film, especially those who considered themselves intellectually superior to practically everyone.
(I was highly amused as to how the intelligentsia was so offended by this film)
(I was highly amused as to how the intelligentsia was so offended by this film)
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
Updated - 16th Nov
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Similar
It is a little similar to "Being There" where Peter Sellers plays a man who was the gardener for a wealthy man. The character was a weird mirror for people to see the things they liked about themselves.
Forrest Gump was a fun movie about a dim bulb who managed to be in the scene when the national obsession changes. It was the weird sayings like "Stupid is as stupid does" and " life is like a box of chocolates..." that show simplicity without being simple.
Forrest Gump and Chancey Gardener are fictional but the character in "A Beautiful Mind" was a real person.
Forrest Gump was a fun movie about a dim bulb who managed to be in the scene when the national obsession changes. It was the weird sayings like "Stupid is as stupid does" and " life is like a box of chocolates..." that show simplicity without being simple.
Forrest Gump and Chancey Gardener are fictional but the character in "A Beautiful Mind" was a real person.
Posted by sboverie
16th Nov
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So True
I remember listening to one of the rowdy kids down the street. Someone said something about maybe how his parents never taught him right from wrong. His reply? "The taught me; I just didn't listen."
Posted by bb_apptix
19th Nov
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Freedom to choose responsibly
The irony is that the more you are unable to choose to do the things that your society requires you to do cooperatively, the more you might need to be controlled by that society in ways that prevent you from"defecting." The more choice is limited for someone who is mentally unable to resist the commission of what we'd call a crime, the more we need to keep them segregated from society with the goal of preventing the effective return of that behavior. But can we see, in our culture, the need to do that?
Psychopaths who commit crimes should probably be locked up as long as the law allows or longer, but since most are not considered mentally ill, we have a dilemma here as well. Because successful psychopaths are very good at concealing the criminal aspects of their "crimes," yet we can't lock them up for their psychopathology alone, can we?
Psychopaths who commit crimes should probably be locked up as long as the law allows or longer, but since most are not considered mentally ill, we have a dilemma here as well. Because successful psychopaths are very good at concealing the criminal aspects of their "crimes," yet we can't lock them up for their psychopathology alone, can we?
Posted by royniles@...
Updated - 16th Nov
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A good read
For anyone interested in this topic, here is a great book: " The Righteous Mind" Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion. by Jonathan Haidt
Posted by JosephSkinkis
16th Nov
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Involuntary Intoxication as a defense to culpability
The fact that someone commits a crime while intoxicated is viewed by the Law as a legal defense depending on their own volition during the ingestion of the intoxicating substance. It is considered "voluntary intoxication" if the perpetrator knew or should have known that he would be impaired in his brain's normal ability to make decisions between right and wrong and is therefore not a defense to his criminal actions. It is considered "involuntary intoxication" if the intoxicant was administered legally either by a medical professional or surreptitiously, outside the defendant's knowledge or awareness, by another and is a complete defense to any criminal action in some jurisdictions. However, practically speaking this type of defense is usually ignored or downplayed unless it is aggressively pursued by Defense. Example: Young man robs a bank while he is taking prescribed narcotic medication for a defective hip implant that is also causing metal toxicity. http://repentforgiveness.weebly.com/ In this case Defendant chose not to use "Involuntary Intoxication" as a defense due to his normal "moral character" developed in his adolescence which caused him to believe that he should take full personal responsibility for his criminal action and face in order to be able to rehabilitate himself. Too bad there is not more of this type of moral character development in our society.
Posted by s.bigelow2012
18th Nov
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Behavior
People used to regulate their behavior, and dress well in public. When I was in junior high and high school you could get sent to the assistant principal's office for discipline if you talked in class, or even scooted your chair loudly... and those werre the worst disruptions we ever had in class.
Not so anymore.
Many people attempt to emulate the bad behavior they see on TV and movies and videos, because it gains them attention. Speaking of attention, anyone who doesn't think that life imitates art hasn't been paying any.
Children at play will always impersonate what they have been watching on TV... ball games, cartoon characters, whatever.
Adults do the same thing. Why did adults all of a sudden begin saying. "Whassup?" twelve years ago, or "Cool" a few years prior, impersonating some guy in a beer commercial when a model handed him a leash and said, "Take me for a walk, Ralph."
It is parent's duty to their children, and their obligation to society to train their children to become responsible adults. However, as seen in my daughter's high school, many of the parents are absent, using recreational drugs, or too busy doing their own thing to even attempt to properly raise their children... giving rise to the gated community for all those who can afford it.
Not so anymore.
Many people attempt to emulate the bad behavior they see on TV and movies and videos, because it gains them attention. Speaking of attention, anyone who doesn't think that life imitates art hasn't been paying any.
Children at play will always impersonate what they have been watching on TV... ball games, cartoon characters, whatever.
Adults do the same thing. Why did adults all of a sudden begin saying. "Whassup?" twelve years ago, or "Cool" a few years prior, impersonating some guy in a beer commercial when a model handed him a leash and said, "Take me for a walk, Ralph."
It is parent's duty to their children, and their obligation to society to train their children to become responsible adults. However, as seen in my daughter's high school, many of the parents are absent, using recreational drugs, or too busy doing their own thing to even attempt to properly raise their children... giving rise to the gated community for all those who can afford it.
Posted by bb_apptix
19th Nov
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Free will (or won't)
I think that we too often look the a simple explanation for things that aren't simple. To me, free will exists but how easy or hard it is to exercise it depends on many things. It is ten times harder for some people to avoid sweets than others but both have free will. It is perhaps a hundred times harder for someone raised by abusive parents and taught to steal to NOT steal than it is for someone raised of loving parents but both have free will. It might be a thousand times harder for an arsonist to NOT set that fire but he still has free will: It always exists.
Posted by OldPoet
Updated - 19th Nov
0
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The MYTH of the Teen Brain
The author of this article needs to read the LATEST research on this subject of the so-called imaginary "teen brain" concept. Here's a link for those who care: http://drrobertepstein.com/pdf/Epstein-THE_MYTH_OF_THE_TEEN_BRAIN-Scientific_American_Mind-4-07.pdf
Robert Epstein, the clinical psychologist who conducted this extensive research and who I have heard speak several times, writes that "... [First,] most of the brain changes that are observed during the teen years lie on a continuum of changes that take place over much of our lives. ... Second, I have not been able to find even a single study that establishes a causal relation between the properties of the brain being examined and the problems we see in teens."
In other words, the development cited in "teen brains" NEVER STOPS until death. It slows, but never ceases, just like our bodies as a whole never stop changing. In short, our brains never "arrive" as "developed". So can we say that ALL of us can never be held responsible for our actions? Ridiculous.
And, of course, just because the brain changes does not create a CAUSAL relationship. In other words, does the brain CAUSE behavior or does the BEHAVIOR cause the configuration changes in the brain? Neurologists point to the latter, i.e., the chemicals that we pour into our system and the porn we view releases powerful chemicals in the brain that result in alterations. At a minimum, then, there is NO evidence that we can not be held accountable for our actions past the age of, say, 5.
Robert Epstein, the clinical psychologist who conducted this extensive research and who I have heard speak several times, writes that "... [First,] most of the brain changes that are observed during the teen years lie on a continuum of changes that take place over much of our lives. ... Second, I have not been able to find even a single study that establishes a causal relation between the properties of the brain being examined and the problems we see in teens."
In other words, the development cited in "teen brains" NEVER STOPS until death. It slows, but never ceases, just like our bodies as a whole never stop changing. In short, our brains never "arrive" as "developed". So can we say that ALL of us can never be held responsible for our actions? Ridiculous.
And, of course, just because the brain changes does not create a CAUSAL relationship. In other words, does the brain CAUSE behavior or does the BEHAVIOR cause the configuration changes in the brain? Neurologists point to the latter, i.e., the chemicals that we pour into our system and the porn we view releases powerful chemicals in the brain that result in alterations. At a minimum, then, there is NO evidence that we can not be held accountable for our actions past the age of, say, 5.
Posted by athrillofhope
29th Nov