Discussion on:

Will 'Electric Highways' boost electric car sales?

they need to modernize the electric grid in order to boost car sales.By incorporating high end digital grids under ground and getting rid of all above ground wires

I understand the Tesla charging stations won't be accessable to any other cars except Tesla. There needs to be a standard for fast charging stations so all electric cars can use them.

Just what EV will be charged to 80% in 30 min??? Is it the Tesla which has a 300+ mile range or the PP Chev Volt with a 40 mile range? Tesla's idea to exchange the whole battery in 10-15 min has great merit. Other than that, range is the key along with cash out of pocket to purchase will be the driving force for EV acceptance. A $50K Tesla with a range of 300 miles on a charge WILL sell as it is less costly to operate than an IC powered vehicle. Think no oil changes, no $4.00+/gal fuel to purchase, no spark plugs, no ICUs, etc. I'd buy that car! and I am Scottish.

...people will be disappointed. In the current state of evolution, EVs are not direct replacements for conventional automobiles, and placing charging stations all over the place will not change that.

Nobody (beyond those who want one for their eco-vanity) who regularly needs a single car to travel more than 100 miles a day is going to seriously consider an EV, even if charging stations are available anywhere. So placing charging stations all over really isn't going to make EVs substantially more popular than they are. Not going to happen.

EVs are optimal for repetitive daily commutes of a finite distance; a scenario where a user can confidently leave home with a full charge, drive it to work or errands during the day within its range capability, and return home to recharge again overnight. Nobody is going to be satisfied with a car that they must constantly monitor for range and then find a place to charge, and then wait a half-hour or longer for it to do so. Not when a conventional auto can for half-the-price travel 5 or 6 times the distance and can be refueled in 5 minutes.

EVs will only retain popularity with short-range commuters or for wealthy people considering a 2nd or 3rd car.

Mass numbers of people commuting long distances in private cars is just insane. We can't change overnight, unfortunately.

I know people who commute over 100 miles a day and spend literally 4 or 5 hours a day in their car. Hardly the way I'd want to spend a quarter to a third of my waking hours.

Part of the problem is that I don't think most people realize what they are really spending on commuting; Yes, they might know what they spend on fuel, but they aren't thinking about what they're spending on depreciating out a car every 3 years or sooner.

I'm thinking about the problem of only having about 100 miles per charge. Just like with a gas powered car some times the driver has some extra gas just in case he breaks down. Wouldn't it be possible to have some kind of storage unit of electricity so that for example the Leaf could go further. Just a thought.

How people keep forgetting the logistic realities of EVs.

For EVs to replace gasoline powered vehicles on a large scale you need to start replacing the over 7 million gas pumps that support the current US fleet with EV charging stations. That will take a few decades to complete.

Mostly because the national power grid cannot handle a substantial growth in EV charging stations. Improved power storage for renewable sources like wind and solar will help make a distributed grid possible to help support the needed growth.

Realistically how many EV charging stations are in the US? Maybe 2,000 public ones and another 20,000 private ones. Taxpayers paying for EV charging stations to make an electric highway is an expensive subsidy for a very small minority of vehicle owners.

Right now EV advocates should be pushing for longer ranges, faster charging times and lower purchase costs.

Once those three things are addressed the EV market will take its own course.

We will need to see significant improvements in longer ranges, and faster charging times. I would pay the higher cost if the EV can go as far, and "fill up" as fast as a gas powered car. Long-term savings would justify it. I pay about $400/month for gas. That would go a long way towards the purchase of an EV. That being said, I would not buy one right now, because even with fueling stations along the highway, I wouldn't want to stop every 100 miles and sit for 1/2 hour to recharge.

Why there is so must pessimism on the outlook of future EVs, I don't understand. Technology has historically been extremely fast to improve when there is the need, or desire for something. I give it 5-10 years, and someone will have figured out a better battery and charging system.

The logistics are a reality of the migration from gas to electricity most EV proponents refuse to acknowledge.

Even if one of the car makers came out with the Model T of EVs tomorrow, durable and long ranged at an affordable price, you still would not see a massive rush to purchase them because the installation of an EV charger in your home requires a cost and level of effort the average car buyer does not want to deal with.

If such a tech break through happens to soon, before the grid is updated, I would bet you would see a lot of angry new EV owners being told their neighborhood grid cannot handle ANOTHER charging station and they must wait or worse pay for a grid upgrade to handle the charging station.

More like a progressive increase when the technology improves to that level, at the same time improving the grid. Remember, a typical 120V AC charger only takes about 15 amps. Also, when hooked to the new smart grid that is currently being installed, it can turn on when it senses excess power sitting idle in the grid, typically at night.

Yes, a 120V AC charger that plugs into a standard outlet starts at about $600 (1 and 1/2 month's worth of gas for me). I'll forgo the purchase of the latest iPhone for that. Not now though, only after the technology is 10 times more efficient than it is today...

In fact, I think they are perfect in certain circumstances.

What I am pessimistic of is the central planning mentality that is choosing EVs as the ultimate solution before the jury is out, and mandating putting the cart before the ox. We are going to waste a fortune on technology that is not ready for prime time and may actually be obsolete before anywhere near being in place.

For example, what if there is another technological break-through in some other area, like fuel cells, after we've spent a trillion dollars putting charging stations everywhere?

I think that EVs should be sold on the basis of what they are good at; efficient short-range transportation for people who travel less than 100 miles a day, and stop trying to convince people that they're going to be taking cross-country trips in them.

What I meant was the future that is often mentioned, in articles like this one, with statements like "There will be, for a long time to come, no alternative to the internal combustion engine...", and "Its definitely a bleak outlook for electric vehicles.". To me, that's sounds VERY pessimistic.

I agree with you that we should not put the investment into an electrical infrastructure right now for the EV of today. Getting back to my point that technology has a tendency to improve quite quickly once it gets started, and demand is created.

I would not try to convince anyone that today's EV will be going on cross country trips. I also wouldn't personally be able to use one now, as my round-trip for work is more than 100 miles if I make any deviations for errands.

It is interesting that clean air is given second citizen status once again.

"compelling reasons to own an all-electric car, including - keeping your neighborhoods air cleaner"

At some point clean air will become a priority - we hope.

EVsRock!
http://www.evsroll.com

My neighborhood, for instance, a block from the beach in Florida, gets most of its pollution from the wind blowing in dust from Africa. Any pollution my car makes is gone from my neighborhood moments later -- on it's way to bother someone else downwind from me.

Also, unless you live in an area with dense traffic, pollution from today's cars is barely measurable and not a big concern.

Of course, for some people in some locations clean air is a priority. We just need to recognize than not everyone is in the same situation.

I can't understand how he could fail to mention the West Coast Electric Highway. Interstate 5 from the Canadian border to the California border will have at least one charging station every 25 miles when they're finished. The little town I live in already has one - wish I could afford an electric car...

EV charging stations are beginning to appear on lower Vancouver Island too.

My Diesel-powered Volvo wagon gets 26 mpg in stop-and-go traffic and 34 mpg in mountain driving. When I vacation, I can drive for up to 500 miles between fillups, while driving with the air conditioner and stereo on. Make an electric that can do that, and which is cost-competitive with a straight diesel system, and I might consider it as a replacement. I definitely won't be interested in having two cars, one for when I need air conditioning and need to drive a long distance or carrying a large load, and one car for short hops. The very wealthy can afford that; I cannot. As they are now, EV's are no competition at all for a good car with plenty of power, hauling capacity, and range.

Perhaps, some day, someone will have the sense to make an electric car with the range and capacity. If it does, it'll probably be a diesel-electric system, whereby the energy comes from a diesel motor and electricity drives a motor in each wheel. Call it a plug-in hybrid, if you wish, but, because of the fire risk with modern gasoline, I would not have it unless the liquid fuel is safe, dependable diesel fuel.

The only way I see for long distance driving with EV's is if we develop a better storage system like a super capacitor for quick charging, and create solar panels along the entire length of interstate highways. This way the cars will have long range and could also be subsidized by the highway itself with a charging track in the road. One lane for charging and the rest for full out driving once charged up again. no need to stop to charge up.