Discussion on:

No bachelor's degree needed: Top 10 highest-paying 'middle' jobs

A degree will help enormously giving you a leg up, as it means you can absorb structured learning, work in teams, be self-sufficient and produce work on time in an environment with your peers and get a benchmarkable proof you have some professional credibility.. It also is shown over numerous studies to pay you back in overall remuneration over your working life of several hundred thousand extra dollars than the cost of your education.

No degree means you have to work your way up, over time. it doesn't mean you are a moron, buta degree is the foundation of almost any Professional Credibility - CEO's without are few and far between.

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but in the UK over the last few decades there has been an enormous push to get everyone in to universities and qualified up to the hilt. In addition, as well as an A grade in secondary-school/college qualifications an A* grade has also been introduced. The net effect of getting as many people through the university system is effectively negating the credibility of a degree because so many people have them now which is diluting their value.

Of course, you're still a more worthy contender for a job if all things being equal, you have a degree and your competition for the role doesn't, BUT from personal experience, I've seen 10 people apply for a lowly admin role, all exceptionally qualified - over qualified, and yet 9 of those people will not get the job, and the 1 that does is taking a low-end role due to the fierce competition higher up the ladder which is now only accessible with relevant experience too.

The irony is that for the first time in 24 years the results dropped, and there has been uproar. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19349444

I can't understand it myself how a qualification has any value when almost everyone has it and there is a societal expectation for the pass rate to increase every single year for a quarter of a century. My equivalent qualification is now 15+yrs old and is seemingly worthless.

More people go to college than any other time in history, made possible by subsidies and easy to get (but not to get rid of) financing. The resulting "education bubble" has encouraged universities to invent all kinds of programs to pass all kinds of people to accommodate the surge.

Since "intelligence tests" by employers were outlawed 40 years ago, the bachelors degree has become the de-facto test; the assumption being that if you're smart enough to make it through an undergrad program, you're probably smart enough to do most jobs. As a result, the BA replaced the high school diploma as the minimum credential decades ago. As a predictable result, the value of all degrees have been diluted.

I guess the catch-22 is going to be that to get the more 'worthy' qualifications you'll have to study for even longer which will mean forefitting experience, so we'll just end up with a society full of academically bright, but older and less experienced, individuals.

I'm waiting for the day when you can simply send off for a degree in a box of cereal - or one of those bi-monthly magazines; 'just buy 24 editions and at the end send off for your degree in astrophysics'.... :o)

It's bad enough that so many of those in the teaching profession have inadequate-to-non-existent real world exposure. If you are right, (and I suspect you are) we'll be stuck with a generation of even more virtually useless "educated" people. Over-educated undereployment will no longer be mainly limited to "Basket Weaving" and "Grievance Studies" majors.

I'm reading more and hearing more from clients that the biggest problem in hiring today isn't finding "educated" people, but people with basic "soft skills" that used to be taken for granted; knowing how to dress or behave professionally, what an actual "work day" implies, or even just "showing up". So many people lack basic deportment because so few today had jobs as kids or while in school, and have unreal expectations of what a real job implies.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/design-architecture/hip-offices-creative-centers-or-8216corporate-kindergartens/8699?tag=search-river

Lack of common sense...

I do contract work, and that means the only goal is the end result. Doesn't matter when it gets worked on, only that it is finished by the assigned deadline or before. It also doesn't matter what I wear when i do the work, unless I am meeting with potential clients and even then, they are not after me as a face of the company, but for the end result.

Much of today's business work could be contract work, but for whatever reason, the world has adapted the "40 hour week" model, and pays on presence and not performance. I would much rather work toward an end goal and not just be tied to a desk 8 hours every day whether there is work or not.

So maybe the work day has been or can be redefined, as the majority work done in industrialized nations is "service" work and not manufacturing, which can also mean these soft skills are not as necessary.

IMHO, IT is the worst example of degree and certification flashing, because most executives have no idea how to properly evaluate them.
This is all from the 90s, but I was having a conversation with my boss at the time about the 'degree/credibility' misnomer. He claimed the same as you, I said "So getting drunk for 4 years on mommy and daddy's dime is worth more to the company than someone who's worked in the field while raising a family?" The difference is that I knew that example is just as misguided as my managers assumption.
When I get a call that a programmer with a 4 year degree from an expensive school 'needs more memory', and I can walk over and without looking at the code tell him he's put himself in an infinite loop, there's an obvious issue with education.
Fortunately, I believe, more knowledgeable - rather than educated - people are moving into hiring positions, hopefully alleviating this issue in IT.

I think the statement "Degree = Credibility" is one of the biggest mis-sold pot of gold at the end of the academic rainbow.

To many employers, a degree assists in proving your credibility, but doesn't however equate to credibility itself.

Ways to lose credibility are to turn up late to interviews in a pair of jeans, unclean shaven, have no pen and pad to take notes and have no knowledge (even at a fundamental 'what does this company DO' level) of the employer for whom you're hoping to work. Get ALL of that wrong, and no degree in the world will help you! :o)

As an engineer I seem to remember needing a Bachelors Degree in Engineering. It took me four years most other graduates required 4.7 years.

First it depends on what the degree is in. One day when I was in line to register for one of my classes in chemistry I asked a girl what she was majoring in. She said History. I asked her what she planned to do with a History degree she said she'd figure it out when she graduated. Second there are other factors like age. Once you pass 30 finding a job is harder. You will have recruiters asking your birthday even before you are considered for a job interview which rarely comes. Third is location. You have to move to where the jobs are. However, there are then problems with that. I moved to another state but my southern accent was a big liability. It didn't matter that I had a BS, I was a veteran and had 10 years experience. I landed a job at a British company north of Denver and immediately the lead techician (an American) began making fun of my accent and many there were rude. If I had been from Red China or Pakistan I would have been more welcome. So if you have a degree in the right discipline in the right location and you are the right age and right race, etc.. Then you are good to go. It's not as simple as just having a degree.

I asked her what she planned to do with a History degree she said she'd figure it out when she graduated.

What gets me is the number of people who go 6-figures into debt with a non-plan like that.

When I was in school, I knew plenty of people like that, except they were really studying for their "MRS" degree. Considering that today women now outnumber men in universities and are catching up in earning potential while men are falling behind, I don't think that plan is particularly viable anymore.

Insisting on a degree is just a filtering mechanism. So many are applying for any position that companies are just cutting the numbers down.
Sad to say that they are missing out on many truly qualified candidates since experience should always trump education.
BTW I have yet to hear of any executive position in the past decade that didn't expect at least a Bachelor's degree.

Career and technical education (CTE) is a primary driver of success in these areas, and has several benefits including boosting student achievement, raising career prospects and earning potential and helping businesses and communities succeed and prosper. The more elected officials, businesses and educators understand this and join together to discuss these programs, the more good that can be done.

The Industry Workforce Needs Council was recently founded to advocate for CTE and its many benefits - and to show how CTE can be used to curb emerging economic skills gaps. For more information, or to join the effort, visit www.iwnc.org.

Jason Sprenger, for the IWNC

You can't call yourself an engineer without a BS degree.

my $70B employer calls me an engineer because that is the work I do. Not only that but a semiconductor application engineer (Something our beloved Bob Pease said one could never attain without a degree, but then he -did- have a paper himself and may have been biased).

Maybe that of which you speak is "P.E." which is a state exam based engineer test-passing criteria: "professional engineer". I can not put P.E. on my card, but I can definitely call myself an engineer. Unless you could cite law please.

And as long as the new BSEEs they hire in some places keep spouting ignorances like saying the "brushes need replaced on an induction motor", things will always be lively for the man (or woman) with real experience and real knowledge. That is a true story.

An actual engineer (someone who qualifies to take the Professional Engineer examination) has minimum prerequisites. Among these are a Bachelors Degree in Engineering from an accredited engineering school, 7 years experience in the field, successful passing of the engineer in training exams, and final passing of the Professional Engineer Exam. Then an engineer may use the title P.E. after their name.
Many engineers choose not to pursue the P.E. pathway. These people still hold a minimum B.S. degree in engineering from an accredited engineering school.
It shocks me how poorly informed people with journalism degrees are on this subject.
The people you are referring to as engineers in this article are actually technicians. Often all they require is a two year training program or a certificate program. Some technicians obtain their knowledge on the job. They are few and far between and getting rarer. Thomas Edison was one of them. Nikola Tesla was another, being a technical school dropout.

Sales engineers??? I assume that is code for "anyone who sells stuff for a living."

Pilots??? They spend as much money on training and flight hours as most college grads, just to break into the field, after which they make horrid wages for many years.

And "CEO" must mean "small business owner." Occasionally someone like that "shoots the moon", thus skewing the average. And of course the failed small business owners, who have lost their life savings, aren't included in your average.

Thanks for sharing these information.I like it.

Uslh

You have got to be bloody kidding, every single EE job requires a degree these day, often a masters, and now even a PhD for the more interesting design jobs. If you can't get this detail right, then you are just posting garbage.

An electrician requires some local college credits too and then they get into a union to get the high salaries.

This is a very significant blog. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep up the good job in posting very good topics.


http://www.marineworkcomp.com/

Intelligent people gravitate to University not so much for a career but as a search for truth. The pursuit of an applied education for utilitarian purposes is pragmatic but the whole edifice is a waste of time talent and money. These most intelligent of our population are role playing and practicing real life rather than participating. Maximum wealth creation would have everyone working not trying to win a place through some elaborate and expensive competition. Its based in class culture and has to do more with maintaining class boundaries that any notion of progress.