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Electric vehicles = ozone?
Edited by justajo
Updated - 13th Aug
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Agreed, but.
Edited by Hates Idiots
Updated - 14th Aug
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electic vehicles
Electric vehicles are not "green" to manufacture, and electric motors produce ozone, which at ground level contributes to smog. A sufficient electric grid must be available to support the EVs - nuclear, coal. or whatever.
Posted by bb_apptix
13th Aug
+1
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Electric vehicles = ozone?
Not necessarily. Brush-type motors create ozone through the sparking that takes place. Switches can create sparks, thus creating ozone. But brushless motors are being used in larger and larger numbers and solid-state switching/motor control, thus mostly spark free (and more efficient), is also preferrred. I believe what ozone is created is in a much smaller proportion than that created by ICEs, as well as the other types of pollution they produce.
As for production, it's a given that all manufacturing creates pollution and therefore not, nor ever will be, 100% green. Better to take steps, even if small ones to reduce pollution than to reject out of hand any and all solutions that do not stop it altogether. The e-trikes are a significant move in the right direction and I for one hope they catch on, even with the caveat that it requires more electrical generation. The Phillipines will have to address that issue as well.
As for production, it's a given that all manufacturing creates pollution and therefore not, nor ever will be, 100% green. Better to take steps, even if small ones to reduce pollution than to reject out of hand any and all solutions that do not stop it altogether. The e-trikes are a significant move in the right direction and I for one hope they catch on, even with the caveat that it requires more electrical generation. The Phillipines will have to address that issue as well.
Posted by justajo
Updated - 13th Aug
0
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E-bikes/trikes Use Almost Exclusively Brushless Motors.
justajo,
Exactly, my friend!
Exactly, my friend!
Posted by Ron Shook
13th Aug
-2
Votes
Only part of the solution.
This only works if the power plants charging them are clean buring. That many electric vehicles will require a substantial ramp up in power generation.
You are not doing much good if dirty coal or oil plants are used to charge 100,000 electric trikes.
You are not doing much good if dirty coal or oil plants are used to charge 100,000 electric trikes.
Posted by Hates Idiots
13th Aug
+1
Vote
The Other Part of the Solution is Still Lots Cleaner!
Hates Idiots,
Fancy meeting you here.
Any modern fossil fuel electrical generation plant regardless of it's fuel and if it utilizes co-generation is approximately 50% efficient contrasted with internal combustion engines in individual vehicles which are at best 20% efficient. So even accounting for some electrical transmission loss the fossil fuel used to make electricity is twice as efficient when used to produce electricity than when used to make vehicles move.
Couple that with the fact that a brushless electrical motor is at least 80% efficient whereas an internal combustion motor is 20% efficient or 4 times the difference and here's what you have: 4 times 2 equals, an 8 times more efficient people mover.
If you have trouble believing this check the market as exemplified in this article and vehicle. The cabby says that he spends just over $1/day for electricity v.s. $8-9/day for a similar vehicle with an ICE engine. Look at that would you: 8 times difference.
And it'll be an much bigger difference as fossil fuel shortages drive the prices to the moon, and build out of renewables start delivering much cheaper electricity (by comparison) over the longer run.
Fancy meeting you here.
Any modern fossil fuel electrical generation plant regardless of it's fuel and if it utilizes co-generation is approximately 50% efficient contrasted with internal combustion engines in individual vehicles which are at best 20% efficient. So even accounting for some electrical transmission loss the fossil fuel used to make electricity is twice as efficient when used to produce electricity than when used to make vehicles move.
Couple that with the fact that a brushless electrical motor is at least 80% efficient whereas an internal combustion motor is 20% efficient or 4 times the difference and here's what you have: 4 times 2 equals, an 8 times more efficient people mover.
If you have trouble believing this check the market as exemplified in this article and vehicle. The cabby says that he spends just over $1/day for electricity v.s. $8-9/day for a similar vehicle with an ICE engine. Look at that would you: 8 times difference.
And it'll be an much bigger difference as fossil fuel shortages drive the prices to the moon, and build out of renewables start delivering much cheaper electricity (by comparison) over the longer run.
Posted by Ron Shook
13th Aug
-1
Votes
Agreed, but.
The past track records on nations in Asia and the Pacific is that they usually do not build the latest generation power plants.
Many have been going to coal power in recent decades which had led to a spike in coal sales from Australia. To such a degree there is now a huge battle over blasting a new channel through the Great Barrier Reef to support deepening a harbor for expanded coal exports. But that is another ecological nightmare for another day.
One example of this trend is Japan. While they have been using NG cars for decades on the island of Okinawa and various forms of solar and wind power for almost as long, it has taken Japan over 50 years to replace the post WW II era coal power plant on Okinawa with a modern natural gas plant. The unscrubbed plant would cast a reddish/yellow haze over parts of the island on the sunniest of days. Its a beautiful place except for the pollution.
All I was doing was asking a question. I would be delighted to hear they are building modern plants to charge these trikes if you can point me to the info.
I have always promoted and applauded cost effective changes and this seems like one of them. But it will be wasted money if they do not provide the other half of the equation.
Why is asking a question so offensive to you?
Many have been going to coal power in recent decades which had led to a spike in coal sales from Australia. To such a degree there is now a huge battle over blasting a new channel through the Great Barrier Reef to support deepening a harbor for expanded coal exports. But that is another ecological nightmare for another day.
One example of this trend is Japan. While they have been using NG cars for decades on the island of Okinawa and various forms of solar and wind power for almost as long, it has taken Japan over 50 years to replace the post WW II era coal power plant on Okinawa with a modern natural gas plant. The unscrubbed plant would cast a reddish/yellow haze over parts of the island on the sunniest of days. Its a beautiful place except for the pollution.
All I was doing was asking a question. I would be delighted to hear they are building modern plants to charge these trikes if you can point me to the info.
I have always promoted and applauded cost effective changes and this seems like one of them. But it will be wasted money if they do not provide the other half of the equation.
Why is asking a question so offensive to you?
Posted by Hates Idiots
Updated - 14th Aug
+1
Vote
Philippines? How about here?
I'd buy an electric 3 wheeler for neighborhood errands, recharged by a combination of home PV panels & off-peak grid power.
Posted by theotherwill
13th Aug
0
Votes
Here is Now for Me!
theotherwill,
I've no car and have been riding a much simpler e-trike in Chicago, year round, for nearly 3 years. I put it together myself ($1100 cost) and it really does the city job at some cost in comfort, but at a tremendous benefit in expenses and often convenience. See the "e-bike Shopping in Winter" video at www.etrikebikes.com .
I've no car and have been riding a much simpler e-trike in Chicago, year round, for nearly 3 years. I put it together myself ($1100 cost) and it really does the city job at some cost in comfort, but at a tremendous benefit in expenses and often convenience. See the "e-bike Shopping in Winter" video at www.etrikebikes.com .
Posted by Ron Shook
13th Aug