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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on Melbourne debates eating animals ]]></title>
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623]]></link>
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    <lastBuildDate>2013-05-18T15:03:00-07:00</lastBuildDate>
             

    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Meat tastes good]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-96081]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[What more do you need?Besides, how much land would it take to feed the billions of people on the planet if there were no meat in any of our diets? How much fertilizer would be needed, organic or otherwise? Where would we put all of the the meat animals that we currently have if we no longer needed them for food?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-96081]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[babaluuu]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 17 Mar 2013 20:04:05 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[My point of view]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-74697]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[7 years ago we got involved in animal welfare campaigning. Until that point we were quite happy meat eaters. Since we became involved in animal welfare we have come to learn what goes on in much of the &quot;animal farming&quot; world, and came to realise that much of what goes on,  the industry wants to keep out of sight and behind closed doors. Thank heavans for Animals Australia!. We became vegetarians. Our &quot;line in the sand&quot; was that  if we can personally kill it, we can eat it. I can catch a fish, I can pull a mussel off a rock, but nothing else. Since we stopped eating bird and meat, we have become healthier as we have uncovered all the amazing non-need -to-be-killed vegetarian foods available. We don't need it,, we don't miss it. Livestock are not an efficient means of protein capture, and most of the vast amounts of meat people are encouraged to eat are simply the results of the vast sums of money spent on marketing by the meat industry. &quot;Don't eat lamb? That's un-Australian!&quot;...give us a break. Call me cynical, but now we are seeing all these happy,smiley organic farmers sitting alongside their happy smiley saddleback pigs and chooks - you don't see the same farmer with a knife in their hand beside a neatly cut throat - why not??? Bottom line:  you don't need to eat meat - something has had it's life ended because of you.  I think all children should be taken and shown what happens at the abbatoir, don;t you? That would be fair would it not, so they get the chance to make their own choices on what they get to eat in life. Why not? Well, we know we know why that won't happn in a hurry don't we. At the end of the day, there are plenty of alternatives that actually taste better. So why do it, and ehy be part of it?  Just my pov.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-74697]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[PaulArcher]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:22:30 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Here are some numbers.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72374]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[3.2 percent vegitarians in USA.0.5 percent vegans.Both are far below 10 percent.They do claim 10 percent follow a vegitarian leaning diet.  Which means they eat a modest amount of meat.  As any good diet should.  As I have said, too much of a good thing can be bad.No better proof is the fact you can die drinking too much water.http://www.vegetariantimes.com/article/vegetarianism-in-america/]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72374]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2012 06:59:03 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Great point.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72274]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I have made many a vegan cry by calling them a murderer for wearing their favorite leather shoes.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72274]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 07:07:58 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[debating meat]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72237]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[1.  One more example of govenment dictating what we can and cannot eat... what kind of car we buy, what kind of clothes we were, what temperature we keep our home, what kind of health care we want.2. Tell lions, tigers, bears, dingos, and sharks that they can't eat meat.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72237]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[bb_apptix]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:17:23 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Note my comment above about a vegan...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72248]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[His doctor told him to eat meat or expect to lose what little health he had remaining.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72248]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulpinemac]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:14:50 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Actually, no they're not]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72247]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I personally know a young man who lived vegan for years; only to have a doctor tell him he NEEDED meat protein if he wanted to regain his health. Too little meat is just as bad as too much meat. Live with it.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72247]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulpinemac]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:12:51 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[I could applaud you for suggesting all animals are sentient...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72245]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[... but as of yet there is very little proof that the animals most humans use for meat come close to sentience. In fact, the most sentient species on Earth seem to all be meat eaters, whether they be the fox and the wolf, bobcat, mountain lion or tiger while the grass eaters seem to lack even the most basic levels of common 'horse' sense. Oh, I don't deny there are exceptions on both sides of the bar, but those exceptions are really quite rare.As humans mature, maybe they don't need as much meat as when they are younger, but meat they still need, or some means of offering the same minerals and vitamins, proteins and amino acids that meats provide.Oh, and if you're taking dietary supplements? You might take a closer look at that bottle's list of ingredients. Quite often the binder used to hold all those different ingredients together is animal-based.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72245]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulpinemac]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 14:15:27 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Please present to me any period in recorded history where humans have been]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72236]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[vegetarians. At no time in the history of mankind through any research I have ever studied has mankind as a whole been a vegetarian species. I won't deny there have been times of famine where foods of any kind have been scarce, but Man as a species has never gone without meat for even one lifetime, much less any socialogically significant period of time.Also, Bruce from Melbourne, please show me a census of any nation or group of nations that counts hundreds of millions of vegetarians as a significant part of their population. Yes, I'll admit I'm aware of some, but with a population of some 8 billion people on Earth, you imply that fully 10% of them (still far from a majority) are not omnivorous.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72236]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulpinemac]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 14:05:39 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Sorry I have to disagree with you. And there are far more kinds of meat...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72244]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[... than just RED meats. Or do you count chicken, pork and the many kinds of seafood as RED meats as well?As I said before, too much of anything is bad for  you, no matter what it is. Meats include the kinds of proteins and amino acids needed to aid intelligence. Meats include materials that enhance the body's abilities to process other foods. Humans are Omnivores--not herbivores. To eliminate meat from our diet is to eliminate half of what makes us what we are.But please note that I'm not arguing that we should all eat a 100% carnivorous diet, either. Just as our bodies need meat, our bodies need the minerals and vitamins obtained through grains and leafy foods as well. Our bodies can use the proteins gained from legumes and beans and other plant foods as well. The ideal diet is a balanced one that should include roughly equal amounts of each of the different kinds of foods.Please stop believing that there is a &quot;one food does all&quot; solution; there simply isn't one.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72244]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Vulpinemac]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 13:51:34 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Swing and a miss.  Strike 2.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72069]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[American Dietetic Society?  How about the American Dietetic Association which is now the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.- The order in which you introduce solid foods doesn't matter for most babies. The traditional progression has been single-grain cereals followed by vegetables, fruits and meats. While there is nothing wrong with this pattern, pureed meat or poultry actually may be the best first food to provide sources of iron and zinc.http://www.eatright.org/Public/content.aspx?id=8049Other little bits of honesty about the benefits of meat are sprinkled throughout their site.They mention on their site as I have said here.  It is all about how much you eat.And much of the developed world is spoiled by prosperity and eats too much meat.  But some meat is good for you.Early hunters likely did not catch food daily.  That was followed by modest times when people did not have the means to eat meat daily.  Even into the mid 20th century most people did not have access to meat on a daily basis.Modern refridgeration changed that.  Mankind now has meat available at the corner market or the fast food joint down the block.So he eats too much.Society got ahead of evolution.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72069]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 14:38:35 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Doesn't hate anyone...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72061]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[No, there is not strong evidence that humans mental evolution is related to animal products. The very theory that it is based on has been completely debunked (http://paleovegan.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/its-curtains-for-expensive-tissue.html). Doesn't stop the meat industry saying it, but it should.The American Dietetic Society is clear that a plant based diet is suitable for humans through every phase of their life, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and forathletes. If you have additional information that they are not familiar with, can you provide links please?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72061]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce from Melbourne]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 07:49:01 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Food Chain]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72055]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72055]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mouseboy007]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 07:02:32 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[I think it is.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72043]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[The same Peter Singer who said killing an infant is not the same as killing an adult because the infant has no capability for reason.Killing babies is ok with old Pete, yet he defends animals right to live.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72043]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:34:33 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[You make my point.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72037]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[You are an adult.  Your body has different needs than a growing infant or child.  You had the proper nutrition you needed growing up.Malnutrition among the children of vegetarians and vegans was a growing epidemic in the US until the CDC, AMA and others finally got some cooperation from major national vegan and vegetarian advocacy groups to get the word out on the need for a proper diet or supplements for infants and children put on restrictive diets.It has also been shown by recent studies that problems like lactose intolerance can be passed on to unborn children from vegan mothers who never had a problem drinking milk because they grew up drinking milk.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72037]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:24:34 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Swing and a miss.  Strike 1.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72041]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Humans have been eating meat closer to 2.5 million years.  There is strong evidence that humans mental evolution happened faster once their diet improved to include more animal products.There is emerging evidence that the surge in attention deficit disorders in the late 1980s and 1990s along with increases in other chemical imbalance issues in growing children mirrors the trend toward low fat diets.As much as people hate to admit it, our bodies have built dependencies on a steady supply of small amounts of animal protein and fat.  While not a cure, simply drinking whole milk daily has been found to ease ADD symptoms in some young children as well as drugs without the side effects.  The older the kid the less effective whole milk is because the damage has already been done.Adult vegans or vegetarians who have already completed their growth curves are a different story as their bodies needs are different.  To deny that difference is folly.The problem with most peoples diets is not the fat or meat content, but the quantity.  The roots of the obesity epidemic is another discussion for another time.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72041]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hates Idiots]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:14:23 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Defence]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72032]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;the meat-eating position is indefensible&quot;People like it. It isn't illegal. :o)Okay, so I'm being facetious. I enjoy eating meat, but I respect your opinion and like most meat eaters would probably baulk at having to slaughter the animals for consumption myself. That said, before many of the proclaimed anti-meat protesters berate us meat-eaters, they should first do the following:Check their wardrobe for leather belts and shoes and discard or at least don't buy any non-vegan ones in the future.Ensure their bike or car tyres aren't manufactured with the animal-based stearic acid, Stop using off-the-shelf fabric softener as they invariably all contain Dihydrogenated tallow dimethyl ammonium chloride, which comes from the cattle, sheep and horse industry. Stop using shampoo and conditioner as PETA, reckon they might be made with as many as 20 or more components that come from animalsStop using toothpaste unless you're sure that the Glycerin being used is plant basedStop eating ANYTHING with sugar in it that you didn't make yourself or buy with the explicit condition that it's sugar manufactured without purified ash from animal bones as is used in filters to refine sugar by many brandsThe moral of the story is ...people in glass houses ........]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72032]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mouseboy007]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 03:23:14 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Happy not to be part of torture and slaughter]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72018]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[It is just specious to say that the human species needs meet to survive, and the apologists for the torture and slaughter of billions of anmals, day in, day out, year in, year out will always find fatuous websites which support what is essentially a matter of taste. I never want to be a part of this animal abuse on a mass international scale again so I choose not to eat meat. I am perfectly healthy, as are my like-minded friends. At the end of the day, the meat-eating position is indefensible. As for 'what would happen to the animals - don't breed animals just to butcher them. Problem solved.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72018]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Suzanne66]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 01:27:22 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Clearly not...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72016]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[No, meat is not necessary for a healthy life. The many healthy vegans in society are a simple enough proof against that statement. More to the essential point, and it is a common one, that there is an 'optimal' amount of meat, which is less than what 'most people' currently eat, but is non-zero. The recent long-running harvard study showed that this is not the case. This study provided clear evidence that regular consumption of red meat, especially processed meat, contributes substantially to premature death. The ideal amount of meat to eat for health reasons is zero.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72016]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce from Melbourne]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 00:17:02 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Actually, no...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72031]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[This is a common misconception. It is true that our species and ancestral species have probably eaten 'occasional' meat for at least a million years, but that pales in comparison to the long evolutionary history of our genus, which has been predominantly or completely vegetarian.As a clue to this, it is only necessary to look at the structure of a herbivore vs that of a carnivore.Herbivores have well developed facial muscles with a jaw joint above the plane of the molars. These allow good side to side and back to front chewing movements. The muscles used are the Masseter and pterygoids. The jaw has an expanded angle compared to carnivores, and tellingly the mouth opening is normally small compared to the head size. The teeth are broad, flattened and spade shaped. The canines are dull and short (with a few exceptions where they are long and straight for defence). Food requires extensive chewing, and the saliva provides carbohydrate digesting enzymes. The stomach can be simple of complex (multiple chambers) but always has a pH of about 4-5 (i.e. mild acidity) with food in it. The stomach capacity is always less than about 30% of the total volume of the digestive tract and the small intestine is generally longer than 10 times the body length of the animal. The colon is long and complex, and may be sacculated (that is, divided into sacs or sections). The liver in herbivores cannot detoxify Vitamin A and the kidney provides moderate concentration of the urine. The nails of herbivores are flattened or blunt (like hooves). Carnivores on the other hand have reduced facial muscles to allow 'gaping', and a reduced angle on the jaw. The jaw is jointed on the same plane as the molars, the major jaw muscle is the Temporalis, and this allows the jaw to 'shear' (meat) with minimal side to side movement. The mouth opening is often large. The incisors are short and pointed, and the canines are long, sharp and curved. Even the molars are sharp, jagged and blade-like. Carnivores tend not to chew, but swallow their food whole, and their saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Their stomach is short, simple and extremely acid (pH 1 or so). It comprises 60% or more of the total digestive tract, and the small intestine is only 3-6 times the body length. The colon is simple, short and smooth. The liver can detoxify Vitamin A. They often have extremely concentrated urine, and their claws are long and sharp. In every regard, without exception, homo sapiens has the bodily make up of a herbivore. This probably explains why those on a predominantly or entirely plant-based diet live longer.The idea that we get 'special nutrients' from flesh, or that we need 'complete proteins' is simply not true, as I'm sure every one of the hundreds of millions of vegetarians living today can probably attest.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.smartplanet.com/forum/discussions/1-10623-72031]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce from Melbourne]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 00:07:35 -0700</pubDate>
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