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What will the hydrogen economy do with all that water?

By | May 19, 2010, 9:45 AM PDT

In yesterday’s story about Robert Dopp and his amazing electrolyzer we failed to discuss the unintended consequences.

If you have cars running on hydrogen, combining it with oxygen in fuel cells, what do you do with the pollution? What do you do with the water?

Dopp notes that if a fuel cell car gets the equivalent of 75 miles per gallon equivalent of hydrogen it’s producing 2.2 gallons of water.

A trip between Dopp’s home in Marietta and Hilton Head Island, SC, which is a little more than the distance between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, would create 17.5 gallons!

That’s a lot of pollution. Notice how, in the picture above from Wikimedia Commons, the water is simply vented, allowed to go up toward the Sun as vapor.

Big mistake there.

The net amount of water used in the translation is zero, but it is in effect being transported from place-to-place. You need water to power an electrolyzer but that water could come from a very wet place. It might be deposited in a very dry place.

We are talking about climate change on a massive scale, or an enormous boon to places that are currently water poor — like Las Vegas.

You can already see a small version of this effect if you drive along a desert highway today that has a lot of car traffic. Notice the small plants by the roadside, which peter out as you get further from the road? They are living off the water thrown off by car exhaust and air conditioners. What I’m writing about is not science fiction.

The obvious solution is to sequester the water, in the car, much as you sequester urine in your bladder, and dump it into the local water system when you fill up again. Filling the car with hydrogen might be like going to the bathroom, with pressurized gas on one side of a bladder pushing water out the other side.

Right now all the fuel cell cars I know of vent their water. They just let it go into the atmosphere. That’s fine when there are very few of them, but what if there are millions, or hundreds of millions, of fuel cell cars.

The water being created is pure, pollution free. For safety’s sake you might still want to get it into a city system where it can be treated with chlorides and other chemicals that make it potable. But it’s pure stuff — just oxygen and hydrogen.

Shouldn’t we think about these problems now rather than waiting for the hydrogen revolution to overtake us so our kids end up on Earth Day 2070, at protest marches in the jungles of Arizona and Nevada?

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Dana Blankenhorn

About Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn was a contributing editor for SmartPlanet from 2009 to 2010.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Contributing Editor, Technology

Dana Blankenhorn has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement and founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media. He holds degrees from Rice and Northwestern universities. He is based in Atlanta.

Follow him on Twitter.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a technology reporter since 1982, a business reporter since 1978, and a writer for as long as he can remember. His Schwab IRA has a few tech stocks in it, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials bought over 10 years ago. But the vast majority of his tiny fortune (emphasis on the word tiny) is invested in mutual funds. He presently writes for no one else but ZDNet, SmartPlanet and himself. But if you've got an opportunity let him know. If he takes the gig he"ll first add it to this disclosure page.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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RE: What will the hydrogen economy do with all that water?
Whoa, hang on...there's a MAJOR misunderstanding here either
on the part of Mr. Dopp or the author.

Hydrogen vehicles PRODUCE about the same amount of water
vapor that gasoline vehicles do. The difference is that the
hydrogen vehicles ONLY emit water vapor, not any pollutants.

In terms of the water USED, to make hydrogen from water takes
about 1/3 of the water needed to make gasoline. See more here
in these two FAQs:
http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/faqs.asp#waterrequir
ed

Patrick Serfass
VP, National Hydrogen Association
Posted by pserfass
19th May 2010
0 Votes
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Don't vent it
You don't have to vent it, Patrick. You know where it's being
produced, and how. You can sequester it. And if you don't it's
pollution. Period.

And it's so unnecessary. Just build a bladder with a bleeder hose.
On one side the hose bleeds in water from the fuel cell. On the
other you store hydrogen. When you fill the hydrogen "tank" you
push the water out the other side of the bladder.

Now, quick, go get your patent before I have to go all Thomas
Edison on your behind....
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
19th May 2010
0 Votes
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RE: What will the hydrogen economy do with all that water?
Some of the vehicles do store the water, but not in an external bladder. They store the water inside the fuel cell, which has to be wet to run. (The membrane inside a fuel cell is like a damp sponge.) When the car is turned off, the excess water is dumped from the fuel cell. From personal expereince, it's not much water...maybe 1/2 cup after driving 100+ miles. Just running around town it's only drops of water.

It's certainly possible to capture the water in a closed system, similar to the way the Space Shuttle's fuel cell does. We could also capture the water coming from the tailpipe and air conditioner condenser in today's gasoline cars. It becomes a trade-off of adding cost, complexity and weight to the vehicle for a small amount of water.

Chris White
California Fuel Cell Partnership
www.cafcp.org
Posted by CaFCPChris
20th May 2010
0 Votes
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RE: What will the hydrogen economy do with all that water?
apparently the editor at SmartPlanet didn't put this article together with
another recent one....

California?s energy industries facing heat over water shortages
http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/intelligent-
energy/californias-energy-industries-facing-heat-over-water-
shortages/1229/
Posted by Vailhem@...
24th May 2010
0 Votes
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RE: What will the hydrogen economy do with all that water?
sorry to double-comment but...
its pure water... pure. water. Keep it in the car, plug it in when you get
home, and/or pump it into the home electrolyzer unit, and let the grid turn
it back into hydrogen to be pumped back into the car. Hell, make it a
rocket-type car. Let the car do it on board, and, keep the oxygen in a
separate tank so the car doesn't even need to pull in ambient oxygen
because it already has pure oxygen stored on board. Essentially, make it
a closed-loop system.
This would save on costs, fore, the purification of fresh water would be
unnecessary. Intel figured this out a decade ago. They were getting into
water rights issues with their fab-plants using too much water. They
realized they could save $billions because the 'dirty water' after the chip
washing process was cleaner than the original water they were purifying
to begin with. From what I remember, it saved them over $1billion a year
per fab, and near-bankrupted a few local municipalities who were planning
on the large water contract with Intel.

Even if the water is not close-looped, any water leakage is relative to
inefficient engine design. The water could easily be stored and dumped
at set locations, gas stations, etc. As scale kicks in though, tens-to-
hundreds of millions of cars lugging around an extra 5lbs per gallon of
water would definitely add up to major fuel costs.
Solution, link up with Google-maps-Android-style built into cars so that
when a car is at a red light with an adequate processing capability, it
'pisses' the water out so that it goes down the near-by drain so the local
municipalities can handle it and process it accordingly. The visual imagery
of watching the cars around you dump water while at a stop light is very
humorous.

All of this is ridiculous though. Hydrogen is a joke. It costs too much to
produce, is too expensive to move around, its energy density only
compares when highly compressed or below-eskimo-cold, leaks due to
the fact that its Hydrogen.. the smallest element around. By the time you
have materials air-tight enough to stop the leakage, strong enough to
handle the pressures, strong enough to handle a side-swipe collision with
some poor sap stuck on the rr-tracks, and insulating enough to keep it at
the proper temperatures w/out having to constantly, actively cool it... you'll
be using (nano)technology that will also be available to other sectors of
the (energy-storage) industry (and beyond) that will make those
technologies safer, cheaper, more energy dense, more environmentally
friendly, and overall just more practical (read: A123 Systems... buy stock
now).

Hydrogen is a fools errand. Its something thats been dangled in front of
progressives for decades (esp the last 10 years) as the solution to the
problem. Much Much more immediately pressing and necessary is
electric cars in general. Not hydrogen, not battery, solar, etc, just
electric. Once you have this, the rest of it is the power supply. The way
to it is to have a car propelled by an electric motor thats either hybrid or,
even easier... powered by an gasoline powered ICE that is designed to
do one thing... and one thing only; not power the ac, not power the radio,
not turn fan belts or go up and down as I speed up and slow down, it has
one speed... turn on, make electricity. That electricity can then power
much much more efficient engines (electric). It can be stored in batteries
that are connected to a computer thats designed to turn the engine on
when it detects only 5 miles of charge left, and can charge it up for a
minimum amount of time... to 25 miles, or further.
A system like this could use an ICE thats powered by natural gas, liquified
coal, propane, ethanol, bio diesel, standard diesel, or plane old gasoline.
There would be absolutely no necessity for an entire infrastructure
overhall.
The engine would be designed to know its going to run a minimum of 20
miles of charge time... possibly longer, but by no means shorter. It could
power the car directly if the batteries fail to hold a charge. It uses gas.
As prices become more competitive, you could increase the size of the
batteries, you could make the car hybrid, you could substitute the ICE for
a fuel cell or various other engine types. It could be a far more efficient
sterling engine due to the fact it runs at one speed, not 0-100mph plus
idle.
You won't have to worry about plugging in if you're on a 500 mile road trip
because... if you run out of juice... you just pull over to your local BP or
Shell and fill up with plain old gas.

If/when/as hydrogen, lithium ion, nuclear, solar (gets dense enough) you
can sub it out, get rid of the gas.

read: Chevy Volt.

Now, if only we could get the hate group (GM? the government?) to stop
policing the hell out of Toyota and enforcing so many unnecessary recalls,
Toyota might be able to afford to direct the money towards this program
as they originally intended. Kind of almost makes me wonder, though, if
that isn't the point?

Hydrogen is dead. Move on... nothing to see here.
Posted by Vailhem@...
24th May 2010
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