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Energy independence in 15 years?

By | August 5, 2010, 12:01 AM PDT

Not only is it possible, says Professor Frank, who teaches in the Department of Aeronautical and Mechanical Engineering at UC Davis, but it’s simple.

All we need is free level 1 charging — the kind you get from a standard household plug. That and a fleet of plug-in hybrid cars equipped with bi-directional chargers that can cycle power between the cars’ batteries and the electric grid, in order to level the renewable power supply that we’ll be getting.

Frank has an economic interest in making plug-in hybrids successful because he holds patents on the technology — he’s co-founded a company in Palo Alto called Efficient Drivetrains Inc. and has been working on plug-in hybrids for 30 years.

“If we took the production of the Chevy Volt and sold it to Hawaii, in 15 years we’d have enough plug-in hybrids to store energy from wind and get the entire state off fossil fuels entirely,” he said last month at an electric car conference in San Jose.

Here’s how he’d do it.

Consider the island of Hawaii, where nearly 90 percent of electricity comes from petroleum. Make all cars plug-in hybrids (UC Davis’s PHEV Center has been converting gas-fueled cars to plug-ins for years) and plug the cars in whenever they’re not being used — about 21 hours a day.

The average car in Hawaii drives about 20 miles a day and would need about 10 kilowatt-hours of electricity, Frank figures, which it could get from a standard electrical plug in about six hours.

Plugs would be everywhere, and charging your car would be free. Frank points out that the Bay Area Rapid Transit system (BART), for instance, would incur no cost by letting commuters charge 3,500 cars in its parking lot and could even save $1.5 million per year, based on the amount of power it pays for now.

That’s because BART has to predict its electrical loads and pay for them ahead of time, and it tends to overestimate what it needs so it doesn’t run out, he says.

Then make sure that the electricity is generated from renewable energy — in Hawaii, that would be wind. (Frank calculates how many wind turbines would have to be built in Hawaii to accomplish this in 15 years).

Since wind and solar power vary with weather and time of day, use the plugged-in cars’ batteries to store energy for the grid and level the power supply. Cycle energy between the batteries and the grid by using a bidirectional charger that can convert stored energy from the batteries (DC) into AC energy and vice versa. If the cars need extra range, run them on biofuels instead of gasoline.

Frank figures that a typical home would have two hybrids — one short range and one longer range. One car could be charging at home while the other car charges at work.

“These vehicles can be integrated into the existing vehicle fleet a year at a time, or continuously over a 15-year period,” Frank writes in a white paper he’s published on this scheme. “…the public would not replace an existing vehicle until it is worn out, which is about 15 years. This rollout period for the plug-in hybrid replacing the entire fleet in a 15-year period is reasonable due to the buying habits of the public and the life of the cars.”

Convinced? It could work if we were all willing to forgo trading in our cars for new models! Frank’s paper is not online, but if you want to see his calculations, you may be able to get the paper here.

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Deborah Gage

About Deborah Gage

Deborah Gage was a contributing editor for SmartPlanet in 2010.

Deborah Gage

Deborah Gage

Contributing Editor

Deborah Gage has written for the San Francisco Chronicle, Minnesota Public Radio, Baseline and various magazines and newspapers. She is based in San Francisco.

Follow her on Twitter.

Deborah Gage

Deborah Gage

I pride myself on being an independent journalist. My reporting and writing are not influenced by any financial holdings, and I have no business affiliations with companies other than the publishers I write for as a journalist.

She writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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0 Votes
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Very intriguing. I've heard the concept of using electric/plug in cars for storing electricity for the grid before, but never figured out exactly how that would work until reading this. Thanks!
Posted by klassman6
5th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Yeah, great for Hawaii, the fairly small island state. But for those of us on mainland who may have to drive our car long periods through a day, some days a hundred miles or more & might have to actually be able to carry a pay load, not gonna cut it. And 2 just so one can be charging while the other is being used? Is my entire family going to work & go to school on the same block? Seems very pipe dream-ish. Plug-ins can work for small in town cars. Most of America does not fit that. Until we can find something with energy density & portability like petroleum, we are stuck with it.
Posted by jahcriado
5th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Classic case of a professor in an ivory tower. Newsflash: on the mainland not only is it hot (ie, we have to run our car air conditioner), but we have to commute a lot more than 20 miles per day. When a car can go 100 miles w/ AC on (or heater), including traffic jams that will double and triple the time, on battery, then they will be viable for commuting. When they can go 4-500 miles with the AC on, they will be viable for everyone.
Posted by abear4562
5th Aug 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
First, you need to convince people to give away electricity for free.
Sorry, I just don't see that happening even in exchange for load balancing power. I see what is presented as perhaps a useful piece of
the puzzle that can contribute to the solution, but is certainly not the
solution in and of itself.

Even wind farms have to deal with NIMBY politics. Look at the late
Ted Kennedy, a liberal by anyone's standard, who fought to stop wind
farms being put up near "his" property so it would not ruin "his" views.

The solution, when it finally comes, will come from better battery
storage, more efficient electricity transference from source to
destination, cleaner nuclear, local solar, and other changes
designed to drop wastage.
Posted by richard233
5th Aug 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Techno-pandering to the hybrid car/wind farm industry. Who's going to pay for all the batteries and where/how will they be disposed?
Posted by brain.trust
5th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
using the car batteries to power the grid will wind up shortenning the lifetime of the batteries. For this, the owner needs to pay and the moment you hit this, even though the electricity has been free, you will kill the plan.

To make this work, each charge station needs a switch which would allow the car owner to switch from "charge only and I pay for my electricity" to "charge me but use me for the grid as well and balance my account."

But the real killer to the plan is the "2 car" proposal. Most of us don't want a second car. We pay car insurance on one car and that's bad enough. Car insurance on a second car is more than we can afford. That makes any 2-car solution non-viable and shows that Frank hasn't thought this quite through.
Posted by mheartwood
5th Aug 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
I kept waiting for the punchline.
Posted by carol.fuhr@...
5th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
If we are going to power our cars with electricity, we need to have a crash program to put solar collectors on every suitable roof with some method of storing excess energy during the day or feeding it to the grid for credit. Otherwise, we are going to have to build a lot of additional coal-fired, nuclear and natural-gas power plants for areas of the country where large-scale wind and solar farms are not feasible.
Posted by garywainright@...
5th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
True that the practicality of only driving your car 20 miles a day in
California is probably no viable for most people but I feel like
every step forward is still progress. I do think that we need to
focus our efforts mostly on wind and solar. It seems like
everyday I read about a new breakthrough in one of these
alternative energy fields. I saw an amazing video the other day
where scientists have created a new solar cell that is not only
flexible and cheap but 10,000 times more efficient. I'll post a link
to the video if you would like to see more for yourself.

http://www.ndep.us/Its-a-Small-World
Posted by sanud002
5th Aug 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
People that like electric cars like to forget a very importent fact: the batteries need to be replaced after a few years and they are terrible things to put in land fills
Posted by jmarshall@...
6th Aug 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
we could have energy independence now by switching entirely to
coal... (like this article) doesn't mean its a good idea.
Posted by Vailhem@...
6th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
I think many of you are missing the point.

You say 40 mile range doesn't work. Nowhere does the article say 20 mile range, it says that is the average a car in Hawaii drives a day. Well it doesn't for all people, but it sure could for more than half. Don't forget there will be charging stations at work, so it is a one way range. Also, the cars are plug-in hybrids. If you drive further, the liquid fuel (the professor proposed bio-diesel) kicks in. The hope here is very little will actually be used, probably true if there really are charging stations everywhere.

Even today's hybrids and all electric cars have AC. I'm sure this is factored into the range. Range would go up if no AC (or heat for electric cars) is used and windows are closed. This is not a show stopping issue at all.

Using the batteries for load balancing should also not seriously reduce the lifetime of the batteries. They will not be deep discharged for the load balancing. Because the cars may need to be driven at any time, there will be a floor to how much charge must remain on the battery, probably at least 70%, here I'm guessing.

Regarding the batteries needing to be replaced, current battery systems last about 10 years. The batteries are then recycled. There will be an environmental cost, but I'm willing, and so are most experts, to bet it will be better than the petroleum alternative. Plus, I have full faith in the market's ability to improve batteries and their recycling/disposal if the numbers go way up, as they would if we adopt this model.

Finally, regarding the 2 car aspect, the author does not say everyone will need to have two cars. The idea is most families currently have 2 or more cars. If this is true, one could then be a car optimized for short range, and the other would have long range capabilities. This would fit my family, and I think most (but not all) others very well. One car families or individuals would choose which type of car works best for their situation. If they choose the short range car, I'm sure they could rent a car a couple times a year for longer trips.

Dave
Posted by drpope
6th Aug 2010
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15 year transition
Thanks for straitening out the naysayers. We are working on average statistics meaning it doesn't quite fit anyone!! But you seem to have it right!! New ideas and concepts are always hard to sell!!
We chose Hawaii because the energy input is known and documented!! Other states don't keep track of their energy use. Also Hawaii standard of living is about the same as the rest of the country.
Incidentally I am also in business building PHEV's of this sort and the customers are in China and elsewhere for now. The Naysayers are the ones who hold this country back because they don't read very deeply!!

Thanks for reading and understanding!!

Prof Frank
Posted by andy frank
11th Feb
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Prof. Frank may be wearing rose-colored glasses to believe that plug-in hybrids are the answer to all of our energy woes, but that does not make this a bad idea. We have to realize that there isn't going to be one solution to our energy/environmental problems. So even if Prof. Frank's solution is only partially successful, it might reduce the pain that we need to suffer elsewhere.
Posted by guywayne
7th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Although not common, Hawaii is certainly not immune to tropical storms. What happens in the event that a storm makes its way through the beautiful islands and damages/destroys a percentage of the solar panels and wind turbines? I don't believe there will be enough stored electricity to sustain electrical demand for any great length of down time. In addition, power will never be free. There is a cost to buy solar panels and wind turbines, and that cost will not be assumed by business owners, utilities, or government. The consumer will have to pay some fee for service.

Although this is a great idea in theory, I just don't see it playing out, especially as easily it has been described. The very fact that wind and solar are both tempermental and dependent on nature brings into play the reliability issue. In a society where we don't hope that the light will come on when you flick the switch, but rather expect it to, automatically put wind and solar into question. What if the wind has been unusually light, or the sky has been unusually cloudy??? Is there enough to still meet demand? What is the peaking load option?

We are still far too in love with fossil fuels to switch at the drop of a hat. Alternatives need to be developed, but it has to be done at a rate where the end user doesn't feel the impact on both service and their pocket book, and that includes the government's. Governments can subsidize for some time, but there has to come a point where governments no longer bridge the gap between economically feasible or not. From a consumer point of view, people who live paycheque-to-paycheque will certainly find it hard give up more of their income to pay for electricity.
Posted by COMMODITYCRAZE
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
So I get in my car at 5:00 and find out that the battery is drained to power the air conditioning in my building? No thanks.
Posted by jtdavies
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Lots and lots of nay sayers who have no ideas and are willing to
stand in the middle of the highway and wait for the semi.......
Posted by rttedrow@...
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Why don't we just cut all of these nonsensical,impractical, pollution-causing, expensive energy program ideas out and convert all cars and trucks to CNG? We probably could have done it with the $800 billion in stimulus money that didn't stimulate anything. This would definately wipe out our need for foreign and domestic oil, period. We have tons of natural gas reserves that will last for many, many years and it's cheap. No importing necessary. In the meantime, we should build more clean nuclear power plants and put more money into research for cleaner coal power, another resource we have a ton of.

The above would absolutely stimulate our economy and create jobs. Our economy is 70-75% consumer spending based. If the consumer is spending less at the pump by buying CNG (rather than imported oil/gasoline), they'll have that much more money to spend on everything else. And ALL of the money stays right here. It doesn't go to oil producing countries that hate us and want to kill us. Makes sense to me.

Wind and solar doesn't work. It's a fact. Look around the world and even here at the abandoned wind farms. They're just too expensive to build and maintain. Solar may be practical someday, but not now. It's too expensive.
Posted by whatstheproblemanyway
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Interesting concept, but I think I prefer the concept of using renewables to directly generate hydrogen off-grid. The electric cars would then have hydrogen tanks instead of batteries. Batteries are heavy, bulky, take time to charge, and lose their performance over time - much fewer problems with hydrogen.
Posted by cauleyflower
10th Aug 2010
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it's not a question of technology
it's a question of political will and America's remaining borrowing power.

As for "whatstheproblemanyway" claim that wind and solar don't work... I guess that's our astroturf ration for today, and it really doesn't matter if he's lying for the benefit of a Big Oil or Big Coal or Big Nuclear PR firm.

Anybody capable of using google can find many examples of working and cost-effective wind/solar projects. All I have to do is look over my back fence to see a working windfarm.
Posted by A.Lizard
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Why not just pave the roads in Hawaii with a hybrid compound of piezoelectric crystals and another durable substance then plug it into the grid that way as cars travel over the road it generates electricity. Piezoelectric crystals generate electricity when ever it is squeezed the more it is squeezed the more electricity it generates. It would work 24/7/365 when ever vehicles are traveling and a recharging station could be placed anywhere along the road because you just plug into the road.
This would work even better in the lower 48 united states because it has about 25 thousand miles of roads. piezoelectric crystals that produce electricity when squeezed is a FACT; but you would need some time to fabricate and create a compound that uses them that can have enough traction to drive on.
Of course if this is created I expect my cut of the profits for my intellectual property; because I think my idea is unique. Just in case here is my email. paulbryantsr@gmail.com
Posted by dinosoft@...
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
have to have air conditioning? ok, let's see, the new Prius has a
solar cell on the roof powering the air conditioner, problem
solved.

of course, this man offers a concept which is then open to
adjustment and rethinking, but it's a shot at a solution that will
benefit everyone.

i read some of these comments and realize how incredibly spoiled
the people in this country are. yes, let's keep things just as they
are now and wait and see what happens down the road, just so
we don't have to be soooo inconvenienced.
Posted by dsteak
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Uh.....rose colored glasses, pie in the sky ideas, panacea, utopia? All are unobtainable...especially this one statement:
"Then make sure that the electricity is generated from renewable energy ? in Hawaii, that would be wind. (Frank calculates how many wind turbines would have to be built in Hawaii to accomplish this in 15 years)."
Wind power...two years ago I was in Maui in Kihe and we could see on the mountain top a bunch of wind generators...none of them moved much while we were there...My mother even made a comment about why they were there if they weren't doing anything!
Posted by tech_ed@...
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
There is a down loadable spreadsheet at http://bit.ly/b5xI64 that does an elementary analysis of this concept. In short, it does not work. There is no free lunch.

In addition, the power grid is a sophisticated business, generating electricity at an optimum combination of cost and pollution. Charging the battery is an additional load, supplied by the most expensive and/or most polluting generator available at the moment. The car's IC engine, conversely, emits pollutants at the SULEV or PZEV level, less that that of the power utility. There is no way to finesse this issue.

Taken to its logical extreme, all vehicles would run on electricity, there would be no gas tax revenue to maintain the highway infrastructure, and large amounts of power at highly polluting levels would be needed. Not a pleasant scenario.
Posted by msd1107
10th Aug 2010
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Post Peak Oil
For those nay sayers who want to stick with the current setup with millions of cars using gasoline or diesel, think about what those millions of cars will be doing when the price per barrel of oil hits $200, $400 and higher. We are close to peak oil, meaning that peak production of oil followed by a long decline. The evidence that we are at post peak is even Saudi Arabia is drilling for oil off shore, off shore drilling is not cheap and done because these fields are what are left after a century of oil production.

The professor has a suggestion that could be viable if a lot of other things can happen. The battery life for cars needs to be good for longer distances and charge in a reasonable amount of time. Alternative sources for generating power will need to be improved and made more efficient. These things are being done now, if alternative energy progressed as fast as computers did then we will be able to be energy independant in 15 years easily. That is if the naysayers don't shut everything down with their lack of foresight and cynicsm.

Most of the people reading these posts are problem solvers, but most of the responses are problem finders who do not offer anything more than "It won't work, so don't try". Following the nay sayers will mean that when the price of oil gets to the point that no one can afford it, then that part of the global civilization will collapse and take most of the rest with it. The end of oil will come sooner at the rate we are using it, probably well within our lifetimes.

We can prepare for the end of oil now. Oil is used to make a lot of different stuff, things we take for granted like fertilizers, plastics, food additives and many other things. We will need to find other ways to make those things that now need oil. The more we can reduce oil usage now will stretch the supplies of oil longer.
Posted by sboverie
10th Aug 2010
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End of oil Era
China is on a course to consume the entire current production of oil by 2025!! They have to got to electric energy!! This is where this technology is going first. then we will become a second tech state!! Do the Naysayers want that??

Prof Frank
Posted by andy frank
11th Feb
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
or we could do like countries in South America and modifiy cars to run on pure ethonal. We already produce far more sugar than we can consume. Convert it to ethanol and we could be energy independent in less than 10 years.
Posted by boykinsboy
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
It may be here sooner. When I discovered the technology of the Flying Saucer in 1967 and patented it later, I left one little spin-off out of the description.
A Flying Saucer does not use rocket fuel.
It "taps" energy out of the aether.

I suspect, that Tesla used the system to power his Pierce Arrow Car in 1931. I know that he did not dare to divulge how it worked, as he realized that the system could also be used to power homes and any kind of vehicle like an airplane.
Pierpont Morgan and Rockefeller would have terminated him.
They were the main investors of the Niagara Falls Power Plant.
I am working on it slowly now.
By the way, Nasa Propulsion Engineers were dead set against the technology. A Shuttle that would fly with a constant acceleration of ONE G to the ISS in one hour?
"Not interested, thank you for the copy of your patent!"
They tried it after the Space Disasters but did not know anything about electronics and caused another disaster.
Gravity Control had been evaluated by the Hudson Institute at $600 Billion, if the USA would have it before Russia.
I believe that this "free energy" is worth many times that.
Posted by Josephus Hap
10th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Regarding A.Lizard's comments, no, I don't represent anyone but myself. I'm just a plain old semi-retired American citizen with my own ideas of how to solve our energy woes. You're right in that I did say wind and solar don't work, but I also said why: "They're too expensive to build and maintain." The ONLY rerason wind farms get built at all is because of government subsidies. Once the subsidies stop, they can't sustain themselves and they get shut down. There are over 14,000 abandoned wind mills in California alone, maybe more.

Being an avid outdorrsman and conservationist my entire life, I do what I can to protect wildlife. I'm really pissed off at the BP Gulf oil spill, but I'm also pissed off at wind farms. They're bird killers, which also makes them inefficient. Here's a quote about a wind farm in California: "Altamont's turbines have since 2008 been tethered four months of every year in an effort to protect migrating birds after environmentalists filed suit. According to the Golden Gate Audubon Society, 75 to 110 Golden Eagles, 380 Burrowing Owls, 300 Red-tailed Hawks, and 333 American Kestrels (falcons) are killed by Altamont turbines annually. A July, 2008 study by the Alameda County Community Development Agency points to 10,000 annual bird deaths from Altamont Pass wind turbines. Audubon calls Altamont, "probably the worst site ever chosen for a wind energy project." In 2004 the group unsuccessfully challenged renewal applications for 18 of 20 Altamont wind farms."

Anyway, think what you want, but read the following and then tell me what you think about wind farms: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/wind_energys_ghosts_1.html
Posted by whatstheproblemanyway
11th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Yes, intriguing. Except that
a. Hybrid cars don't solve the problem - they still use gasoline
b. Hybrids are expensive and impractical or undesirable for too many people. If they weren't, everyone would already own one. So, you'd essentially have to force people to buy them. Converting them to plu in increases the cost
c. You'd have to restructure the electric grid to both charge and accept input from these cars. That this hasn't been done is a chief reason hybrids and electric cars remain unpopular
d. Using the cars' batteries to level the grid would wear out faster -- and the owners are footing the bill. Not likely to increase the popularity of the cars.
e. Then you'd have to convert all other production to alternative sources - something that hasn't been done in 30-odd years of tax 'incentives' and federal DOE energy policies and initiatives..
How about something more practical? If we could get every house and building in the US to replace just one (1) incandescent or fluorescent light fixture with a comparable LED fixture, I roughly estimated we could save about 20 gigawatts per hour of use. The cost per fixture is around $100 - much more affordable than buying a hybrid car or installing a solar panel and inverter - so that it could more easily be incentivized or even included in things like renovations of government buildings, federally subsidized housing or HUD grants.
Given the cost of alternatives, the only way to achieve energy independence in 15 years is for the government to approach it the way it did the space program. And the very first thing the government can and should do is get its own house in order by installing wind, solar and other alternative technologies on every government building and facility.
Posted by remoulton
11th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Two observations and one opine:

1) Look at all the recharging stations in parking lots in OC California. I've yet to see a car at any of them. Now and then I go to Orange County, Santa Monica, or San Diego. In all cases I would have to stop and charge (with current battery life) at least once. It takes 6 hours to completely recharge my wireless phone (probably old, but you get the idea). That assumes there will never be any lines at charging stations.

2) When I moved to the Inland Empire I learned that alternate energy can work and it is not a "pie in the sky" like I used to think. Look at the wind mills in Palm Springs which provides energy for surrounding areas. I remember when they were sold as tax shelters. The owner later found it was a profitable enterprise. He is a millionaire now.

Look at the geo-thermal generators in Imperial County (IIRC 7 at Salton Sea) and how it provides energy for surrounding areas.

Then there are plan for a solar farm in Palm Desert that would be financed by property tax breaks for warehouses that put a panel on their roof. I don't know where the plan is today, but if it is still kicking, I'm behind it.

I'm against the way alternate energy is sold, but I'm all for conserving resources. Why don't we on the right work with those on the left to push an idea that advances both our platforms? Come on, let's quit fighting each other for the sake of the fight. We are both in the same basket even if we disagree on how to get out of it.
Posted by Dave Keays
11th Aug 2010
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energy independence in 15yrs?
It would be rather inefficient to charge & then discharge batteries especially over the grid. They have made very very large capacity batteries ( about 15MW i think! or was it GW? {unlikely}) now for wind farm produced electricity which would be located where it's needed -right next to the farm. Also how much space would it take to power the country (USA or UK) by wind & photovoltaic especially if all transport switches to electricity? immense i would guess...
Posted by g.rockley@...
18th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
ps i didn't mean MW - it must have been (MAh or KAh) or (KWh or MWh).
Posted by g.rockley@...
18th Aug 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Is Professor Frank smokin' dope? Here in California we're told to cut back on air conditioning on hot days. i guess nobody gets to drive their plug-in hybrids during the summer. Typical ivory tower nonsense.

The answer is nukes -- lots of them. Commercialize thorium-powered reactors. Most of the research on thorium was done in the 1950s and 1960s, but the U.S. government wasn't interested in the end, because they were only looking for fast nuclear reactions to build bombs. Thorium reactors can be built so safe that a meltdown is impossible and no containment dome is needed. The end products from a thorium reactor are minuscule compared t those from a uranium or plutonium reactor and not "hot", radiologically speaking. Moreover, thorium is/was a waste product from uranium production, and we already have a tremendous stockpile of it. It's 100 times more abundant in the Earth's crust than uranium. Some estimates put the world's thorium supply at 1,000 to 10,000 years of use, enough energy to power your wildest dreams for the foreseeable future.

Two hybrid cars in every garage? Not after this liberal, free-spending government has put us all in the poor-house! You'll be lucky if you can afford to keep a 10-year-old clunker going.
Posted by phil8192
2nd Sep 2010
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RE: Energy independence in 15 years?
Some interesting stats to consider: We have more coal here in the U.S. than Saudi Arabia has oil (http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves). Montana alone has enough coal to power the entire country for 75 years (http://www.montanacoalinvestment.com/). I agree that renewable energy is the future, but if independence is the goal today, we need to be making the most of our domestic energy sources rather than importing from abroad. We may even create a few jobs while we?re at it.
Posted by Thompson48
3rd Sep 2010
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Professor Frank's complete article is now online
A PDF of Professor Frank's complete article can now be downloaded:
A Fifteen Year Roadmap Toward Complete Energy Sustainability
http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/?page_id=10063&pub_id=1820
This article shows that we can transition from fossil fuel dependency to a sustainable society that runs on renewable electricity and biofuels. Carbon neutral biofuels from local sources can be used to run PHEV vehicles whenever they need to travel beyond the mileage that can be supplied by the batteries or when the electric grid is not working.
Posted by brthomas6@...
11th Feb
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Simple question.
Why does it have to be "free"? How is it free if solar and wind are so expensive to setup?

"All we need is free level 1 charging"

Who is to pay for this magical "free" energy?

I hope not the US taxpayers who already have a $16 trillion federal government debt to pay off, another $40 to $50 trillion in unfunded federal mandates and who knows how many billions or even trillions in state government debt.

The instant gratification generation has bankrupted the US for the next 200 years.

Thanks guys.
Posted by Hates Idiots
Updated - 13th Feb
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