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Does “Delete forever” in Gmail really mean it?

By | November 19, 2009, 8:38 AM PST

I delete a lot of e-mail and have wondered recently whether the “delete forever” button in Gmail means what it implies. After all, “forever” is a very long time.

Here’s what Google says: “Click Delete Forever. This time, it’s really gone forever.”

Gmail users know the drill. You delete unwanted messages from the inbox and they go into “Trash.” From there, you check off the messages to be deleted, hit the “Delete forever” button and `poof,’ they’re gone. The presumption is that they are destroyed. They exist nowhere else within Google where they can be directly associated with your Gmail account.

Of course, deleting anything on a computer not to mention from the cloud is lot more complex than that. Messages you want destroyed could be in someone else’s Gmail inbox or server, but there’s nothing you can do about that. For the purposes of this post, I want to explore the notion of whether messages I want “deleted forever” from any association with my e-mail account.

In a nutshell, a Google spokeswoman told me the following:

“If you delete a message from your trash, it will be deleted forever from your Gmail.  We do backup Gmail offline, so it may take up to 60 days to permanently delete any stored copies.”

She implies messages are deleted, but didn’t explicitly say so. She said deleting them from backup could take up to 60 days. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt. Google’s boilerplate on the topic introduces more confusion if you really dissect it.

“Google keeps multiple backup copies of users’ emails so that we can recover messages and restore accounts in case of errors or system failure, for some limited periods of time.  Residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up to 60 days to be deleted from our servers. Deleted messages may also remain on offline backup systems for some limited period of time. This is standard practice in the email industry, which Gmail and other major webmail services follow in order to provide a reliable service for users. We will make reasonable efforts to remove deleted information from offline backup systems as quickly as is practical.”

I find the boilerplate a bit vague about when deletions occur. On one hand, it says “residual copies” are deleted from servers within 60 days. What’s a residual copy? Copies are the e-mails. Then it says e-mails could be kept on off-line backup systems for “some limited period of time (as in forever?). That’s vague to say the least. Then there’s the part you just KNOW was written by a Google attorney. Information is deleted “…as quickly as is practical.” This policy has too many outs to suggest the deletion procedures work in a clockwork fashion.

Knowing how much information it amasses on individuals, Google recently introduced Google Dashboard that gives users a detailed snapshot of exactly what data and services clients are using. That helps, but mostly from an organizational point of view, not one of privacy (it’s a bit scary that Google is so good at organizing everything for its millions of users).

Google Dashboard

Google Dashboard

As with so many things, trust boils down to believing what you’re told and going on faith that Google lives up to its word. I have no reason to believe otherwise except that I usually believe otherwise.

Do you free secure in the Google cloud? Does your interpretation of “delete forever” match what Google says it is. Does Google live up to it in your opinion? How well Google does in protecting your privacy is all about perception, trust and ultimately, confidence.

Stayed tuned, I have more questions into Google about the mechanics of “delete forever.”

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John Dodge

About John Dodge

John Dodge was a contributing editor for SmartPlanet from 2009 to 2010.

John Dodge

John Dodge

Contributing Editor

John Dodge has written for the Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, PC Week (now eWeek), EDN, Design News, Electronic Business, Bio-IT World, Health-IT World, Lowell Sun, Haverhill Gazette and Newburyport Daily News. He is based in Massachusetts.

Follow him on Twitter.

John Dodge

John Dodge

John Dodge prides himself on completely independent journalism. His opinions, observations and reporting are not influenced by any financial holdings. He holds no shares in computer, electronics, software or Internet companies. He also has no business affiliations with organizations except with those for which he creates content as a freelancer.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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0 Votes
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RE: Does 'Delete forever' in Gmail really mean it?
I HAD AN EXPERIENCE THAT THE FBI CAME TO HY HOME AND CONFISCATED MY COMPUTER. I HAD DELETED A FEW INAPPROPRIATE E MAILS. I WAS LABORING THAT IF I DELETED CERTAIN INFORMATION IT WAS GONE. THE FBI PUT A DISK IN MY CPU AND LO AND BEHOLD UP POPPED THE INAPPROPRIATE MATERIAL I HAD DELETED. SO DELETED DOES NOT MEAN SQUAT.
DELETED DOES NOT MEAN IT IS GONE. BIG BROTHER CAN PULL IT UP REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. YOU CAN GET BURNT BY BIG BROTHER. DO YOU KNOW OF A METHOD WE CAN USE TO TOTALLY PROTECT OURSELVES FROM BIG BROTHER (FBI). IF WE CANNOT PROTECT OURSELVES WE SHOULD BE ADVISED OF THAT FACT OFFICIALLY. a METHOD SHOULD BE FURNISHED TO US TO PREVENT NO-NO'S FROM GETTING IN. PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW I CAN PROTECT MYSELF FROM BEING BURNT FROM HIGHER AUTHORITY......TOM TEA@NCTV.COM
Posted by tea@...
22nd Nov 2009
+1 Vote
+ -
Here's an idea
dont look at kiddie porn
Posted by copracr
4th Jan
0 Votes
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RE: Does 'Delete forever' in Gmail really mean it?
My gmail was hacked and password changed. Gmail just restored my access to it. You can literally see the IP address in the recent details of the person who hacked it. In any case, they deleted all of my mail. How can I get my entire mailbox back? Or is that impossible. I've been all through the web trying to find an answer. Please help!
Posted by GGNeedsHelp
6th Mar 2010
0 Votes
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RE: Does 'Delete forever' in Gmail really mean it?
It would be good to get clear technical specifications from google on what 'delete forever' does mean, and I will be following your discovery closely. I would like to see that 'delete forever' means that no part of the email (including associated metadata) can be retrieved from any system or storage device. It should mean that no trace of the email having ever existed could be recovered by any means. Government agencies that dispose (destroy) digital information legitimately under legislated and approved disposal authorities need to destroy the email, but are required to keep the associated metadata as part of the audit trail to show the record existed, and when and what authority the public record was destroyed under. However, in the case of gmail and other email account providers, I would expect as a consumer that the email and all associated metadata was unrecoverable by any means for now and in the future.
Posted by infotweedle
20th Nov 2010
0 Votes
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Legal requirements to keep copies of email
In the working world, the feds require companies to keep archived backup copies of emails for 6 (or is it 7) years. I worked for a regional school district that provided this as a service to 40+ local school districts, including our own. This was a security requirement passed sometime after 9/11 and this has been in effect for the last few years. I'm not sure whether ISPs like Google do this, but if a school district uses gmail, which many do, they have this requirement and there has to be a way to archive everything.

Clearly, delete forever has no meaning if you work for an employer who follows the law. I'm also not sure what the business size is (# of employees) to make this legal requirement kick in, but it's a very real part of modern life. That's why so many employers have written policies telling employees not to use corporate email for anything personal or risque.
Posted by Brian63
29th Dec
0 Votes
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Find out what the legal requirements state and follow the money.
The chances are, that the government wants access to that data, and for a long time to come. The emails you send, the word and speech patterns you use are all valuable and useful to others, so why would you assume they delete it? In fact, deleting your message would likely raise a flag and cause your account to be monitored all that more closely. Police know to look out for people who drive too well, or never seem to do anything wrong, it is not normal.

It costs millions of dollars a month to maintain those servers and to manage the data flow. Where and how do they, or could they, make their money? Follow the money; read what they are legally required to do; go from there...
Posted by Kieron Seymour-Howell
26th Jan
0 Votes
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yup
they do that all the time they sell it make money give you more space.what?
Posted by jake9045
31st Mar
0 Votes
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Ever heard of Echelon?
The United States Government agencies are known to have built huge storage data centers and are in the process of building even bigger ones to store vast amounts of domestic surveillance data intercepted from their citizens activities. So even if you tell Gmail to "Delete Forever", rest assured your government keeps a copy "for your safety and protection".
Posted by anthonymaw
21st Feb
+1 Vote
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Data Mining
Google (and probably others) sifts through every e-mail to extract data used for marketing. They won't say how much of those e-mails is extracted, so it is possible that they could extract everything! All they need is massive cloud storage (which they already have) to store ALL e-mail in their system, in the hopes that future needs can be met. What is NOT valuable to them today may be extremely valuable tomorrow.
Posted by fiosdave
27th Feb
0 Votes
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yeah thats true
they sit trough every email because i was getting a email from my brother and it was only a mb and it took them 20 seconds for it to be in my inbox so i think it was coppied to all servers and a goverments as well
Posted by jake9045
31st Mar
0 Votes
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Inevitable: Big War or Solar Storm will crush it all
No to worry, as the headline suggests, nothing last forever. Why sweat the small stuff. It doesn't matter, unless you want to be immortal and that just doesn't happen, no matter how long any"body" tries. Not even manmade Gods last forever -- a few thousand years at best, but usually just a few centuries.
Get over yourselves people, nothing last very long, especially blood, bones, and demented brains.
Posted by Rudy Haugeneder
8th May
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