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Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug

By | November 1, 2010, 8:34 AM PDT

A paper in the British medical journal The Lancet claims alcohol is more harmful to society than heroin.

David Nutt, the former Labour government drugs advisor who now heads the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, is not suggesting that the harm from drinking a glass of wine at dinner is greater than spending the night in a heroin shooting gallery.

What Nutt says he’s trying to do is open up a new discussion on policy regarding all drugs — legal and illegal — based on the total harm they do to the user and to others, rather than on the basis of politics or habits.

Nutt was forced out of office after this study, which he co-authored, indicated alcohol and tobacco were nearly as physically damaging as cocaine and heroin. (Illustration from Wikipedia.)

The latest study offers 16 criteria for analysis, ranging from personal illness and mortality to the economic cost and harm done to families. From the accumulation of all this damage, his group gives alcohol a score of 72, against scores of 55 and 54 for crack cocaine and heroin.

The big differences lie in the economic cost of the drug, the cost to families, and injuries associated with the drug’s use.

The report also looked at Portugal, which decriminalized all illicit drugs in 2001, concluding “evidence indicates reductions in problematic use, drug-related harms and criminal justice overcrowding.” In other words decriminalization did not make Portugal a nation of drug addicts.

Nutt believes it’s not the legal status of specific substances that makes them harmful, but their social acceptance within society. The report recommends that money be shifted from the fight against illegal drugs to reducing tolerance for legal ones.

One of the study’s authors, Leslie King, put it this way. “What governments decide is illegal is not always based on science.”

Another way to put it is that drug policy includes more than whether a drug is legal or illegal, even how high the penalty for possession is.

It reminds me of something I wrote years ago concerning Seth Godin’s book “Permission Marketing.” Just as there are levels of permission below that of a transaction, there are policy levers extending beyond the simple legal status of a substance.

Tobacco, for instance, is legal, but we spend a lot of money warning people away from it. Much of the money spent against cocaine, which Nutt’s study calls equally damaging, is focused on law enforcement, and some of the damage results directly from that legal sanction.

Depoliticizing our discussion of drug policy might be welcome, but even looking at Nutt’s results it’s hard to see that happening. There are many variables, perhaps too many to get good data.

Still, it’s a subject worthy of further discussion, whether or not Californians decide to start the experiment tomorrow by making marijuana legal.

Psychoactives will always be with us, and minimizing their total cost is in everyone’s best interests.

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Dana Blankenhorn

About Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn was a contributing editor for SmartPlanet from 2009 to 2010.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Contributing Editor

Dana Blankenhorn has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement and founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media. He holds degrees from Rice and Northwestern universities. He is based in Atlanta.

Follow him on Twitter.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a technology reporter since 1982, a business reporter since 1978, and a writer for as long as he can remember. His Schwab IRA has a few tech stocks in it, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials bought over 10 years ago. But the vast majority of his tiny fortune (emphasis on the word tiny) is invested in mutual funds. He presently writes for no one else but ZDNet, SmartPlanet and himself. But if you've got an opportunity let him know. If he takes the gig he"ll first add it to this disclosure page.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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+1 Vote
+ -
Be careful when throwing around the word STUDY Dana.
You fail to mention this was not a study of actual damage done by drug use. It was an opinion that came out of ?quote- a 1-day interactive workshop to score 20 drugs on 16 criteria ? unquote.

A 23-member committee working with 2 unnamed specialists gave an opinion.

This is not a study. It is not based on facts. It is an opinion report.

I am not surprised that he was forced out if he tried to pass off a committee meeting opinion as a study.

http://www.drugscience.org.uk/committeemembers.html

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61462-6/fulltext
Posted by Hates Idiots
1st Nov 2010
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Hates Idiots
I'm not making any claims on the validity of the science. As you'll
note, I said there are a lot of variables.

But the question should be asked. Isn't there more to a drug
policy than just whether or not something is illegal? And don't
social policies meant to discourage drug use have as much
impact (or more) on use than criminal law?

Compare tobacco and alcohol use on that score. Or consider that
by making marijuana illegal we've been discouraged from coming
up with meaningful social policy aimed at discouragement, based
on what the stuff actually does.

(I actually think comedians' recent focus on how it impacts short-
term memory may be the most important social policy against it
we have right now.)
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Also...just once
When someone comes out with something we don't agree with, just
once I'd like to see us address the point rather than try and discredit
the speaker.

Just a thought.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
Content...
I have no problem discussing the content of a post, but when you look at the source document and find that it was not a study, but an opinion piece, it makes it difficult to analyze for an intelligent discussion.

It does point back to the frequently mentioned issue of people misrepresenting data here. To say this was a study gives the impression that they looked at hundreds of cases of alcohol and drug abuse to come to a factual conclusion based on data found.

If they are going to write an opinion report built on a one-day interactive discussion than they should have the integrity to call it such and stand behind the conclusions they make in the report.

That is all I am trying to say.

It is just a thought to have some integrity in a discussion.
Posted by Hates Idiots
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
correction...
I also never said I disagreed with any of the statements in your post.

I simply questioned the source.
Posted by Hates Idiots
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Well Dana, I guess I have to concede that I agree with you on a number of your contentions. Especially your quote from one of the participants.

"What governments decide is illegal is not always based on science.?

Here is a scientifically and medically accurate statement:
"Unborn children are human beings"
Yet government and law denies them the right to life.
Would you hold a consistent view on this one or is it somehow different?
Posted by jwlthe4th
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
jwlthe4th

oh i see what you did there. You derailed a conversation about
drugs and alcohol by introducing a straw man argument about
something else entirely. No matter how anyone answers the
question you'll take the smug reassurance that they're wrong.

Nice.
Posted by genewitch
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Returning to the subject
All sorts of things are addictive if overdone. We know, for
instance, that a glass of wine at dinner can be a good thing, but
we also know that a half-gallon of wine, taken every day, is a bad
thing.

Same thing with opiates. Opiate-based drugs have given millions
relief from pain. Properly administered, they're great. But heroin
will make you crazy, and it can kill you.

That's where a sane "drug" policy would go, in my opinion. And
we'd have these discussions in a dispassionate manner.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
1st Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Excellent story Dana. Glad you ran it. We need to treat drug abuse for what it is, a health issue not a legal issue.

To the detractors of the science behind it, how would you quantify societal damage? To me societal damage is an immensely complex variable that is not amenable to strict empirical analysis. To refuse to study and question issues with such complexities and corresponding massive social impact is the height of absurdity.
Posted by cmatrix
1st Nov 2010
-1 Votes
+ -
cmatrix
I agree with Hates Idiots that these are early days in the scientific
measurement of the impact of psycho-actives. I applaud the study
even though I question its results, because there are so many
variables.

But right now the only tools we have are political rhetoric, so that's
the tool that is deployed by critics.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
Still defending bad data.... I rest my case.
Will everyone please stop referring to this as a study or scientific research.

It was a 1-day gathering of people who stated a collective opinion on a topic.

There was no scientific work involved in the creation of this document.

The opinion stated is based on the observations of the people involved in a 1-day gathering to review material provided to them by the host.

For gods sake some of the people involved were a chemist and a veterinary surgeon. Unless they are speaking from personal experience, what do they professionally know about the impact of drug use on society?

I went to the source document because the topic and stated findings of the alleged study were intriguing.

I was very disappointed to find there was no actual research done. Like it or not, this is in fact an opinion piece based on a fixed amount of people operating within a fixed discussion framework working with a 1-day time limit to completion.

Talk about stacking the deck for a predicted conclusion. This was far from a scientific study.

To quote another thread on the site, most medical research is wrong.
Posted by Hates Idiots
1st Nov 2010
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Hates Idiots
The work of scientists that agrees with your political predilections
must be right. The work of scientists that disagrees must be
wrong.

Notice a pattern? I do, and I think others do, too.

The Lancet doesn't just publish political screeds. They were very
embarrassed by the Wakefield scandal and have sought to
tighten up. The authors know stuff. It would be wise to stop trying
to discredit the messenger and consider the message.

If you have an argument with the message of the piece then
please make it.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Let's see. Alcohol is addictive and can cause major health problems and is legal. Alcohol is a drug by definition, but they conveniently put it in it's own category.
Cannabis isn't addictive, don't cause health problems (actually helps in a lot of cases), and it's illegal.
Why? It's all about the money. The textile and drug companies don't want it legalized, therefore it's not.
And that gateway drug crap goes over about like saying beer is a gateway drug to hard liquor...
Posted by Tinman57
1st Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
A decade in the liquor industry (nightclub management) gave me
an unscientific but totally valid awareness of the dangers inherent
in alcohol consumption. There is a direct correlation between
alcohol and violence. It cannot be denied. Depending on the
individual, violence points of argument, anger, loud shouting at
one another and flash temper outbursts, can occur on the third
drink.

Whereas with cannabis the correlation is rather the opposite:
people laugh a lot. Point is from liquor industry perspective,
stoners don't drink much. They'll often nurse a coke or a single
beer rather than hard liquor which is not a money maker for the
clubs.

In conclusion, any discussion on drugs in our society is of value.
Awareness is always the beginning.
Posted by KarrasB
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
First, Dana, you are completely incorrect in your assertion that Hates Idiots is tailoring his bias to fit his conclusions. He even stated directly that he AGREES with many of the conclusions. The point, that you appear to be missing, is that the word study has a MEANING. It is not an empty vessel into which you can pour whatever meaning you desire. And that meaning does NOT encompass the SURVEY" to which you and others are referring. It is NOT a study. Period.

Also, and FTR, there is not a single shred of evidence that either heroine or cocaine does ANY chronic physical damage. With cessation, after a period of between 6 months to 12 months, receptor levels return to normal, the body heals, and all measurable criteria return to baseline. The same can NOT be said for either of the two main legal intoxicants, cigarettes and alcohol, which have a number of documented, chronic, or permanent, resultants, including permanently elevated cancer risks, permanently decreased lung capacity in females who begin smoking prior to or during puberty, Korsakoff's syndrome, etc..
Posted by DeusExMachina
2nd Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Hates Idiots, why do you hate idiots? They have no control over
the way that they were born. Why not call yourself something
like, Hates People Who Don't See The Motes In The Eyes Of
Others More Clearly Than He Sees The Beam In His Own?

That would certainly be more descriptive of your attitude.

Legalize it and tax it. Spend the money saved and gained thereby
on education - teach people to be too intelligent "to go for that
narcotic" - and health care for those who need it, such as the
general population, the alcoholics, and the victims of cancer.

Stop putting the money of the many into the pockets of the few
privately-owned companies that construct and staff all those new
prisons that now seem to be required.
Posted by hwgray
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Thank you.
Spot on DeusExMachina.

Thank god someone gets it.

And yes I agree with some of the report, but I think to generalize on alcohol is unfair.

Regional problems have greater impacts on the local society.

In my home town the problem is meth. It has brought a large number of breakins, home invasions and muggings by the users looking for a quick buck. Murders and violance assaults are up with the increased fighting among the dealers and their customers.

We recently had kids under the age of 3 killed in cross fire between drug dealers.

Yes. I am very familiar with the topic and their conclusion on alcohol showed how limited their reference material was.

Oh wait. Their was no research to reference.

And what did the vet contribute to the discussion?
Posted by Hates Idiots
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Nobody seems to have mentioned Portugal's 2001 decriminalization legislation and the fact that it has not turned it into a nation of addicts. I read newspapers every day and cannot remember any news about that. We should study Portugal. Send a fact-finding mission over there and get some facts - not opinions.

Loved this discussion. Good article, Mr. Blankenhorn. Thank-you.
Posted by cb77305
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Brief comment on site.
On the source web site for the report there is a brief mention of the committee reviewing data from Portugal and other countries.

The focus of the data was not discussed. Nor was the drug decriminalization legislation mentioned. It is a shame none of the data reviewed that day was made public with the report.

Your information on the Portugal situation warrents further follow-up.

Thank you cb.
Posted by Hates Idiots
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Interesting
Couple of points:

Tabacco is as additive or more than cocaine. It affects the same section of the brain that cocaine does. This is fact, feel free to look it up.

Alchohol is physically more damaging to the body than Marijuana.

Enough said
Posted by there is hope
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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I agree with the sentiments of the study...
...if not the questionable hard data. Society's social, political, and
legal approach to different drugs are totally out of proportion to the
differences between the hard and soft effects of those drugs. And
we waste a lot of money and create a lot of collateral damage
because of that.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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Social Education vs legal remedies
This is a good discussion and the idea of using social pressure to discourage drug abuse is a better one than the lock 'em up path. The social injuries caused by the war on drugs are more than just the encarcerated drug users.

A lot of the laws written for drug enforcement seems to have been written in response to other social changes. It is said that the story about "The Face on the Bar Room Floor" helped the push to prohibit alcohol and the failure of that particular experiment. "Reefer Madness" is another example of an exaggeration that put marijuana on the controlled substance list.

It would be interesting to get more details about Portugal's decriminalization of illegal drugs. I would be more interested in the changes in addicitons since the change. Addiction is a medical and physical problem and not one that is being solved as a criminal problem.
Posted by sboverie
2nd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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I agree with @sboverie@...
...that social pressure is far more effective than legal or even
economic pressure when it comes to drug abuse.

For example, I don't have a problem with marijuana being legal. I
just want the legal right not to have to hire marijuana users.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
3rd Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
As with any other study, I want a complete definition of terms. What is meant by 'harm' and 'harmful'? Because they are legal, more people can buy alcohol and tobacco, and get themselves into trouble with it.

Has anybody read the articles about opium/poppy/heroin addiction in Afghanistan? It's harrowing! Whole communities are reduced to beggars because all they care about is getting high.

This study is rubbish!
Posted by jimmy37
3rd Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Several posters have brought up Portugal. Read about it:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303411604575168231982388308.html
Several points: 1) They didn't completely legalize drugs. Drug trafficing is still illegal. Only possession of small amounts is legal. 2) It's not the glaring success posters are making it out to be. Problems are developing, and the "success" at reducing heroin addiction is probably only because of people transferring to other drugs (which aren't being tracked).
Posted by dmm99
4th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Also, FWIW, I think "Hates Idiots" is correct to complain about the way this was presented. It was not "research" and it was not a "study." It was the collective opinion of a group of people who may or may not have an axe to grind. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong, but it's definitely not science.
Posted by dmm99
4th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
I agree with the non-study which the non-scientists made public
that alcohol is doing society much more damage than 99% of
people are aware of.

Alcohol is known to destroy human tissue. It also make you look
older. Except the damage on the body organs, each glass of
whisky destroys thousands of brain cells which unlike other body
cells, they do not regenerate. Brain can rewire itself differently
each time a damage happens so it will continue to function
(unlike computers) but it won't be as good as before.

If you drink a lot, alcohol can actually change your personality -to
the worse of course -this is widely known. I've met a drinker that
would start cursing at you for no reason even if he just met you...
Now if you are young, the consequences will be even greater to
your development.

Alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, cola, are actually all drugs or drug-
based along with the forbidden ones. They all do some damage
and this damage is reflected on the personality change of the
subject.
For example, coffee can give you heart arrhythmia, change the
way you react etc even without realizing it. If you cut off caffeine,
you'll might be surprised with yourself as you'll become a more
calm, "better" person -yourself.

So the bottom line is, all drugs are harmful and should be
avoided with no exceptions.

Of course there is a whole industry legal or not that want you to
pay for drinks, coffee, drugs. Even in movies, if you haven't
noticed, they have started again to promote smoking and the use
of drugs as something "normal" even in family movies!
Posted by Administrator.
4th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
@jimmy37
"Because they are legal, more people can buy alcohol and tobacco, and get themselves into trouble with it."

You don't just get to make stuff up and state it as fact. This is particularly galling as it takes place in the same paragraph as you posing as someone ho understands basic scientific literature.

First, again, this was NOT a study, it was a survey. Second, and more importantly, you stated fact is what is rubbish. Because tobacco and alcohol are legal, they businesses that sell it operate in the open, and have everything to lose and nothing to gain by making it available to minors. As such, although it is still relatively easy for minors to procure these items, it is substantially easier for them to acquire pot and cocaine, and heroine. Not to mention the fact that your statement flies in the face of ALL the data, that indicate that both alcohol as well as tobacco use is on the decline.
Posted by DeusExMachina
4th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
@Administrator.

"Alcohol is known to destroy human tissue. It also make you look
older. Except the damage on the body organs, each glass of
whisky destroys thousands of brain cells which unlike other body
cells, they do not regenerate. Brain can rewire itself differently
each time a damage happens so it will continue to function
(unlike computers) but it won't be as good as before."

This is a complete myth, with no empirical support. It is almost as frustrating as that silly Einstein quote about people only using 10% of their brains. Einstein was a great physicist. As a neuroscientist, not so much. Unless their is some underlying brain damage or dysfunction, people use pretty much 100% of their brains. It is just that some people use it for keeping track of what pants are currently in style.

"Alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, cola, are actually all drugs or drug-
based along with the forbidden ones. They all do some damage
and this damage is reflected on the personality change of the
subject."

Sorry, but again, the evidence just does not support this statement. Coffee and cola and other caffeinated drinks, and tea, which contains theobromine, operate by increasing cyclic AMP production, which triggers intracellular activation cascades, none of which cause cellular damage, let alone death. After the level of these chemicals returns to baseline, so does the subject.

"So the bottom line is, all drugs are harmful and should be
avoided with no exceptions. "

Again, this is categorically not true. There is not a single shred of empirical evidence that most drugs, including cocaine and heroine, have chronic physical side-effects, unlike alcohol and tobacco.

For the record, the issue with tobacco is NOT nicotine, which is not even significantly carcinogenic. The issue is the tars and other chemicals released during the burning of the leaves, that accumulate in the lungs, and trigger physical reactions that in chronic exposure, lead to numerous long-term effects.

That said, nicotine, being addictive, ensures that these other chemicals will continue to bathe the cells they are harming.
As to its additive nature, nicotine is FAR more addictive than any of the illegal drugs. This includes heroine and cocaine. A perfect example of this was Sigmund Freud. An early champion of the use of both heroine and cocaine as therapeutic tools, and a user himself, when more information came out as to their addictive nature, he quite both, cold turkey, and never used either again.
Freud, however, remained a smoker his entire life. in 1894, when his friend and doctor informed him that his heart arrhythmia was due to smoking and that he must stop, Freud tried, and failed.
He tried numerous times to stop, once as long as 14 months, but his depression and craving was so strong, he eventually succumbed and began smoking again.
In 1923, Freud noticed sores in his mouth and palate that refused to heal. These turned out to be cancer, caused, he knew, by smoking. Over the next 16 years he suffered through a series of, essentially, amputations, eventually having his entire jaw removed, as he was wracked by cancer after cancer. And yet still he smoked.
He finally was in so much pain that he insisted that his friend and physician, Max Schur, honour an agreement they had made earlier to not drag out the misery for no point, and after consultation with his wife, who was initially reluctant, directed Dr. Schur to administer a dose of morphine sufficient to euthanize him. Freud was administered a morphine overdose over the 21st and 22nd of September, 1939, and died on 23 Sept, 1939. It is believed he was smoking on his death bed, right up to the point that the morphine made him unconscious, and eventually took his life.
Posted by DeusExMachina
5th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Deus ex Machina said: "...although it is still relatively easy for minors to procure [alcohol and tobacco], it is substantially easier for them to acquire pot and cocaine, and heroine."
Oh, come on! I'm calling BS on that statement. Older friends and siblings generally have absolutely no qualms about procuring alcohol and tobacco for under-age users. Parents routinely allow their children to use alcohol, under their supervision, and many argue that this is a good thing. I've never met a parent who gave their kid heroin, although I suppose such low-lifes exist.
Posted by dmm99
5th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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dmm99
I'm willing to agree that societal acceptance can be related to legal status. But the societal status of tobacco has changed in the last decade, even though technically the legal status of it has not.

Similarly the social acceptance of marijuana has changed even though its legal status, in most of the country, has not changed.

The point of the authors if that societal acceptance and legal status are both important criterion for seeing the damage a particular drug is doing to society.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
5th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
And that is the point. Minors are forced to resort to using older siblings, friends, and parents to procure LEGAL drugs. There is no such necessity for illegal drugs. They simply go to school and go to one of many known drug dealers, who will have NO qualms about selling to an under aged customer.

"Older friends and siblings generally have absolutely no qualms about procuring alcohol and tobacco for under-age users. Parents routinely allow their children to use alcohol, under their supervision, and many argue that this is a good thing."

talk about B.S.! Your employ of deceptive rhetorical techniques does not successfully hide the obvious falsehood here. While it IS true that SOME older friends and siblings ill do this readily, it most certainly is NOT true GENERALLY, nor that they have NO qualms at all about it. It is also not true that it is routine for parents to buy alcohol for their minor children. In fact, for many teens, finding anyone willing to make the purchase is an ordeal. Popular culture is replete with anecdotal examples of the trials of finding someone to make the buy. Again, there is no such problem AT ALL with illegal drugs.
Posted by DeusExMachina
5th Nov 2010
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
@DeusExMachina (about alcohol brain damage)
"This is a complete myth, with no empirical support. It is almost as frustrating as that silly Einstein quote about people only using 10% of their brains."

Really? And where are the studies that prove that alcohol causes NO brain damage? You cannot make any safe scientific conclusion based on the lack of data!!!

But some common logic is enough since alcohol literary destroys most other body organs! Do you really think it would let the brain intact?

Anyway, 2 minutes of googling were enough:

Alcohol Alert
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm
______________

The Neuropathology of Alcohol-Related Brain Damage
http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/2/136.full
______________

New scientific evidence that alcohol causes brain damage in teenagers
http://io9.com/5555183/new-scientific-evidence-that-alcohol-causes-brain-damage-in-teenagers
______________
From Wiki (with references):

Alcohol-related deaths in the United Kingdom are coded using the Tenth Revision of the International Classification of Diseases:

# Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of alcohol ? ICD-10 F10
# Degeneration of nervous system due to alcohol ? ICD-10 G31.2
# Alcoholic polyneuropathy ? ICD-10 G62.1
(+ many other serious body organ damages)

"...Chronic heavy alcohol consumption impairs brain development, causes brain shrinkage, dementia, physical dependence, increases neuropsychiatric and cognitive disorders and causes distortion of the brain chemistry..."

(+ much more empirical data)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol
______________
|
V
Posted by Administrator.
6th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
|
V
"Again, this is categorically not true. There is not a single shred of empirical evidence that most drugs, including cocaine and heroine, have chronic physical side-effects, unlike alcohol and tobacco."

I also personally know of 3 people who were/are addicts and all of them have rot teeth and use dentures in their 40s ! So I googled that and found:

from wiki:
"Methamphetamine users and addicts may lose their teeth abnormally quickly, a condition informally known as meth mouth"

"...Physical side effects from chronic smoking of cocaine include hemoptysis, bronchospasm, pruritus, fever, diffuse alveolar infiltrates without effusions, pulmonary and systemic eosinophilia, chest pain, lung trauma, sore throat, asthma, hoarse voice, dyspnea (shortness of breath), and an aching, flu-like syndrome. A common but untrue belief is that the smoking of cocaine chemically breaks down tooth enamel and causes tooth decay. However, cocaine does often cause involuntary tooth grinding, known as bruxism, which can deteriorate tooth enamel and lead to gingivitis.[80]..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine
______________


In sort, all kinds of drugs including the "innocent" ones, have at least behavioral side-effects beyond any doubt, so they change something in a not natural way, by invading the human organism with chemicals and overriding it's normal function.
That would be enough for avoiding them, because things can only go worse than that.

But they also change the way addicts perceive reality (distortion of reality) and they become addicted to that distortion -that's the worst side-effect, the worst damage to the person and society.
Posted by Administrator.
6th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
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RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
You are allowing your bias in believing these myths to

"Really? And where are the studies that prove that alcohol causes NO brain damage? You cannot make any safe scientific conclusion based on the lack of data!!!"

No. Logic, and therefore science, do NOT work that way. First, by definition, the burden of proof is on you, as it is you that is make a declarative claim. Just as importantly, you appear to misunderstand the very basis of science. Science, per se, is NOT a positive proof system. Science cannot PROVE anything. It can only disprove. Science can only confirm a theory insofar as it is unable to disprove it, and a threshold is reached at which assumption of proof is logically validated (think Occam's Razor).

But as to your specific issue. I do not need to make any conclusion based on lack of data. NO study has EVER shown cell depletion from moderate alcohol use. Period.

"But some common logic is enough since alcohol literary destroys most other body organs! Do you really think it would let the brain intact?"

So let's look at your "common logic". It has no basis in fact. Most other organs? You don't just get to make stuff up. Please construct a list and then detail which organs are harmed by alcohol, and explain the damage. Stomach, intestines, pancreas, skin, muscle, bone, hair, none of these are effected by moderate or even heavy alcohol use. Again, you don't just get to make stuff up.
What you really want to look at is the liver, an organ well-known for its ability to COMPLETELY regenerate itself after even almost complete removal. Even after heavy alcohol use, the liver, if given time, can recover and return to a baseline state.

But let's look at the true topic here, the brain. (As a point of information, I have a degree in neuroscience, so I do know a little bit about this particular organ.)

In your first citation, please note that not a SINGLE link is made between moderate alcohol consumption and organic brain damage. None. Nowhere do they link acute effects of alcohol intoxication, up to and including blacking out, with actual brain damage. Even after chronic, heavy alcohol consumption, they can not conclude it was the alcohol toxicity that lead to perceived brain shrinkage and cellular damage, but made sure to point out that these effects could just as easily be due to accompanying Thiamin deficiency. To wit:
"Damage may be a result of the direct effects of alcohol on the brain or may result indirectly, from a poor general health status or from severe liver disease.

For example, thiamine deficiency is a common occurrence in people with alcoholism and results from poor overall nutrition."

From the same paper:
"Consequently, researchers have not found conclusive evidence that any one variable is solely responsible for the brain deficits found in alcoholics. Characterizing what makes some alcoholics vulnerable to brain damage whereas others are not remains the subject of active research"

It is important to note that you are being very disingenuous in posting this citation, which is a review of research on ALCOHOLICS.

The same is true from the study you cited next. It is NOT about alcohol consumption, per se, and does NOT link alcohol consumption to brain damage.

Your third citation does no better, just changing the study population,m and using a very unrealistic regimen, on a nonhuman population.

Not a single citation you provided is either germane, or proves your point. In logical terms, they are red herrings.

As for your next post, tooth damage is not what most people have in mind regarding chronic physical side-effects, and is remediated by proper dental care, the fact that meth addiction makes such care unlikely notwithstanding.

All one has to do is look at your next quote. Not only are NONE of the items in your list of physical side effects chronic (ALL of them remediate after drug cessation) it even goes on to add a counter argument to the VERY point you just made regarding loss of enamel due to drug use.

You appear to be trying to link drug use to short term physical side effects, which no one is disputing, and then trying a linguistic sleight of hand (red herring) to infer chronic side-effects, even though NO such side effects are indicated from the data you present. In fact, the very :ACK of such data is telling. If such side-effects are so clear and obvious, as you suggest, 1) Where is the data, and 2) Why are they even researching the issue of chronic exposure effects from the the stand point of proving that any occur?

"In sort, all kinds of drugs including the "innocent" ones, have at least behavioral side-effects beyond any doubt, so they change something in a not natural way, by invading the human organism with chemicals and overriding it's normal function.
That would be enough for avoiding them, because things can only go worse than that."

This argument is absurd. First, the same point can be made about food. Who are you to define, for instance, the effect of marijuana as "unnatural" if it is ingested, any more than the effect of high Vitamin C? This is ESPECIALLY true of alcohol, as considerable anthropological and biological evidence exists that alcohol consumption is not only natural, but a regular part of the evolutionary environment.
Question for you. What happens when fruit falls from a tree? What happens when it is picked, and stored? In case you are in doubt, the process is called fermentation. Alcohol occurs NATURALLY in foods regularly consumed, even if NO attempt is made to enhance the process externally. Any number of animal populations are known to take advantage of this effect by preferentially eating decaying fruit. Step up to the bar. Hard cider anyone?!?

"But they also change the way addicts perceive reality (distortion of reality) and they become addicted to that distortion -that's the worst side-effect, the worst damage to the person and society."

Um, that is a completely inaccurate description of the addiction process.
I am beginning to sense a pattern here.
Posted by DeusExMachina
6th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
And for the record, as far as meth mouth is concerned, ONCE AGAIN, you are pulling the same sleight of hand, trying to substitute the effects of chronic, long-term ABUSE, with simple use. They are NOT the same thing. If I eat popcorn, I am probably not causing myself any damage. If all I ever eat is popcorn, that is an ENTIRELY different thing.
Posted by DeusExMachina
6th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
"First, by definition, the burden of proof is on you, as it is you that is make a declarative claim."
I did provide some citations, but more convincing ones will follow (on this post) for your satisfaction!

"Just as importantly, you appear to misunderstand the very basis of science. Science, per se, is NOT a positive proof system. Science cannot PROVE anything. It can only disprove."


You can prove many things with science, if you don't idealize proof (and the hypothesis in question) which means if you set limits and conditions.

"Science can only confirm a theory insofar as it is unable to disprove it, and a threshold is reached at which assumption of proof is logically validated (think Occam's Razor)."

So in those cases that can't disprove something, science actually switches to the non-idealistic meaning of proof and uses a limit (the threshold) to "confirm" it, to prove it.

But the hypothesis that alcohol is harmless in moderate use, science might be "unable to disprove it" OR "lacking the technology to disprove it" OR worse "not being interested to disprove it" -as most researches are sponsored only for profit. Actually, there is profit to disprove the opposite!

So, which one(s) is the case? Is there such a high precision (and sensitivity) technology available to show that e.g 10,000 brain cells are depleted or damaged in a living man's brain each time he drinks 1 glass of whiskey?
If not, then science just doesn't yet have the means to ...disprove the hypothesis that no damage happens to the brain with moderate alcohol consumption. This is a totally different think from having the means and being "unable to disprove it".

"But as to your specific issue. I do not need to make any conclusion based on lack of data. NO study has EVER shown cell depletion from moderate alcohol use. Period."

"Ever" is too short these days. Here it comes, for the brain:

"Moderate Alcohol Consumption Linked To Brain Shrinkage"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031205052952.htm

"Even Low Alcohol Consumption Has A Negative Impact On Overall Health, Researchers Argue"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091022202717.htm

from the abstract of "Teratogenic Effects of Alcohol on Brain Development"

"Alcohol-induced damage to the developing brain encompasses a longer developmental time-frame, affects more cell populations, occurs at lower levels of exposure , produces greater numbers of permanent effects, and is modulated by more factors than was initially suggested by earlier teratological studies."

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07853899009147914?journalCode=ann

For the whole body (cancer):

" Million Women Study Shows Even Moderate Alcohol Consumption Associated With Increased Cancer Risk"
"...In an accompanying editorial, Michael Lauer M.D., and Paul Sorlie, Ph.D., of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, in Bethesda, M.D., emphasize that these new results derived from such a large study population should give readers pause. Although previous epidemiological studies have suggested that there is a cardiovascular benefit associated with moderate alcohol consumption, the excess cancer risk identified
in the current study may outweigh that benefit. " From a standpoint of cancer risk, the message of this report could not be clearer. There is no level of alcohol consumption that can be considered safe, " the editorialists write."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090224163555.htm

"Stomach, intestines, pancreas, skin, muscle, bone, hair, none of these are effected by moderate or even heavy alcohol use. "

Here are some, either temporary, chronic or fatal:

Muscles:
"When you consume alcohol, a substance is produced in the liver that is toxic to the release of testosterone. This substance decreases the concentration of testosterone in the body, resulting in lower muscle mass and definition."

Heart: Damage to heart muscles and heart failure.

BTW, physical exercise and alcohol consumption (even several hours before the exercise) is a dangerous combination -a life-threatening one (also a personal experience).

Stomach: heartburn, gastritis (inflammation), ulcers and bleeding, cancer.

skin: "..alcohol creates inflammation throughout the body including the skin, resulting in effects that far outlast dehydration. The metabolites of alcohol are molecules known as aldehydes. Aldehydes cause cellular damage..." etc

Reproductive System: Various negative effects depending on gender, for example shrinkage of testicles on man.

Bones: Osteoporosis: thinning of the bones
etc.

"This is ESPECIALLY true of alcohol, as considerable anthropological and biological evidence exists that alcohol consumption is not only natural, but a regular part of the evolutionary environment. Question for you. What happens when fruit falls from a tree? What happens when it is picked, and stored? In case you are in doubt, the process is called fermentation. Alcohol occurs NATURALLY in foods regularly
consumed, even if NO attempt is made to enhance the process externally. Any number of animal populations are known to take advantage of this effect by preferentially eating decaying fruit. Step up to the bar. Hard cider anyone?!?"

You are comparing 40% of alcohol in whiskey with 0.1% in natural food! Quantity does matter!
(BTW decaying food or fermented for beverage production is OT).


In sort,
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!"
(Richard Feynman)


P.S too busy to post it in time
Posted by Administrator.
11th Nov 2010
+1 Vote
+ -
RE: Research shows alcohol causes most society damage of any drug
Sorry, bolds gone wild... probably some mistype.
Posted by Administrator.
11th Nov 2010
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