Follow this blog:
RSS

PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness

By | August 4, 2010, 6:41 AM PDT

If a cancer drug can prolong some poor man’s life by 4 months, should 93,000 of your tax dollars be spent on it? How about 93,000 of your insurance dollars?

That’s what Dendreon’s PROVENGE does, and that’s what it costs.

A letter from the 28,000-member American Society of Clinical Oncologists says yes, the drug has been approved for marketing, it works, and anyone who prescribes it should have that prescription paid for.

Medicare decided at the end of June to look closely at whether it should do this, given the price. The drug’s supporters immediately charged members of the panel making the decision of a conflict of interest. (The ad is from Caretolive, which advocates on behalf of Provenge. They note that PROVENGE costs no more than many chemotherapy treatments.)

How do you feel about it? It’s your money. Whether we’re talking tax money or insurance money, it’s your money if it comes from a common pool you pay into. If just 1,000 men get the extra four months of life from this drug, are you happy to pay $93 million for that benefit? If 100,000 get those four months, that’s $9.3 billion.

There are two ways to look at this. Dendreon invested heavily in PROVENGE, and denial of PROVENGE claims would have a chilling effect on medical discovery. Writing in Forbes, equity analyst Avik Roy tells patients not to worry, that insurers cover it now, and that Medicare lacks legal authority to say no.

But this is where the rubber meets the road on all efforts to control health care costs. This is the essential difference between the American health system and that of Europe, where cost-effectiveness is routinely considered before medicine is approved for use. That’s why so much of health innovation is done here. We pay for it.

We pay for it even though there may be other avenues. Researchers at Columbia say they have a 33-ingredient compound ready for human testing that could cure or even prevent the disease, and at very low dosages. Jun Yan and Aaron Katz call their compound ProstaCaid.

Or consider what Owen Witte’s team at UCLA has just found, a cell-of-origin for the disease that could point to new approaches in both diagnosis and treatment. Basal cells, not luminal cells, are behind the disease, Witte found. Witte’s work on leukemia previously led to the development of Gleevec, a potent treatment.

I know what my life is worth, and if I were facing imminent death then $23,000 per month might be a small price to pay. With my money. But with yours? Should we wait for more cost-effective treatments to emerge, as they are emerging before we open the public purse to PROVENGE?

And if we’re willing to make this calculation for prostate cancer, what about other diseases?

If you’re unwilling to consider this, many feel, you’re not serious about holding the line on health care costs, because stories like this happen nearly every day. Like I said, it’s the difference between the American and European systems. We subsidize their cures until the costs become acceptable to them.

Fair or unfair?

Start your week smarter with our weekly e-mail newsletter. It's your cheat sheet for good ideas. Get it.

Dana Blankenhorn

About Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn was a contributing editor for SmartPlanet from 2009 to 2010.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Contributing Editor, Healthcare

Dana Blankenhorn has written for the Chicago Tribune, Advertising Age's "NetMarketing" supplement and founded the Interactive Age Daily for CMP Media. He holds degrees from Rice and Northwestern universities. He is based in Atlanta.

Follow him on Twitter.

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn

Dana Blankenhorn has been a technology reporter since 1982, a business reporter since 1978, and a writer for as long as he can remember. His Schwab IRA has a few tech stocks in it, most notably some Intel and Applied Materials bought over 10 years ago. But the vast majority of his tiny fortune (emphasis on the word tiny) is invested in mutual funds. He presently writes for no one else but ZDNet, SmartPlanet and himself. But if you've got an opportunity let him know. If he takes the gig he"ll first add it to this disclosure page.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

23
Comments

Join the conversation!

Follow via:
RSS
0 Votes
+ -
RE: PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness
I applaud your courage, and am amazed by the lack of response. For the record I most certainly agree with your thesis, and having just started my 8th decade I think I have earned the right to hold an opinion on the matter. I will be amazed if you don't get some "death panel" response.
Cheers
Posted by jheman2
5th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
jheman2
Once you put the onus on moral cowards they run away. Those who
understand just nod their heads in sympathy and move on. Thanks
for writing.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
5th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Formerly, this would have been a private issue...
... between the patient and the insurance company he had
contracted with to provide him care.

But once we begin to all "share" the same system, it means that
we're all involved in each other's care and are morally entitled an
opinion as to how it's applied to others. Everyone else's care will
soon be my business. I've been warning people of this.

This is not in and of itself an issue of "fair" or "unfair". It's just
going to be what it is. This is just the beginning. And it's going to
be messy. And it's not going to stop at which drugs to use to give
some guy a few extra months. It's going to proceed to "lifestyle
choices". It's going to be targeting the fat guy at he 7-11 with a
basket of Twinkies. Then it's going to be the Twinkies. Then it
will be something else.

BTW: I highly doubt that Donald Berwick would sign off on this
drug.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
5th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
JohnMcGrew@...
So you want to leave people at the mercy of the insurance
company, and do nothing for anyone else. The insurer can abuse
you, leave you to die, deny necessary treatments, but God forbid
you have to act like a Christian and care about your neighbor?

I'm just going to disagree with that. But I appreciate your dropping
by and offering the courage of your convictions. I admire that. Wish
more people were as honest as you are.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
5th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
RE: PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness
Forget provenge.

I watched a friend of mine die from a very lethal cancer of the esophagus. She should have lived about 6-7 months longer but she was given chemo that was popular in the last century and even that was delayed to check out her eligibility.

Yes, if you should be so unfortunate as to be on medicaid or state aid you will find out about rationing a lot sooner than us old codgers on medicare The poor and the mentally incompetent are routinely rerouted away from high tech or high cost treatments.

And it is not going to get better with Obamacare.
Posted by IMWeira
5th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Dana, what's the big difference...
...being at the mercy of a soulless insurance company or the
mercy of a soulless government bureaucracy?

At least with the insurance company, I have a signed contract that
must be lived up to. Yeah, I have no illusions that I'm the weaker
of the two parties, but at least I have a contract that can be held
up by a court. With the government, I won't even have that.
Politicians and un-elected bureaucrats can and will change the
rules on a whim, and I'll have little recourse.

I find it amusing when you talk as though governments have
never abused anyone or left them to die. (I've posted enough
NHS horror stories to counter that argument) Unless you are well
connected, have a constituency high enough in office or the
media, your odds are no better. I think that in be back of the
minds of most media progressives and government-types, they
honestly do believe that when push-comes-to-shove, they will get
preferential treatment over the masses. Of all the hard-core
Marxists I knew in school, I can't remember a single one that saw
his future as one of "the workers". Even as they fervently
espoused their beliefs, I think they all knew that even in the
"workers paradise", being a "worker" was going to suck.

And I love your cheesey progressive "Christian" comeback
attempt at an insult, which only demonstrated both a gross
ignorance Christianity and the concept of grace.

So to you, being a "Christian" means voluntarily accepting a
system that is so grossly flawed and inevitably corrupt run by
people who have already demonstrated their incompetence at
running even the most simple things? So when I die and meet
Saint Peter and he asks what I've done to be worthy of passing
through the pearly gates, I can say "Hey, 50% of my gross
adjusted income was taken from me to pay for social security,
economic stimulus, and universal health care." You think that will
be enough?

The Bible frequently admonishes the reader to be a "good
steward" of God's gifts and wealth. Sorry, but by any standard,
can you possible argue that our government has been or is
capable of being a "good steward" of our wealth? Seriously?

Nowhere in the New Testament do I recall any passage where
Christ petitioned the Romans to raise taxes to provide health
care, or anything else. Nor do I recall any passage suggesting
that people should be giving more to the clearly corrupt
establishment of the Pharisees so that they could take care of the
"poor" problem on behalf of the Jews so that they would then not
have to personally worry about it. If I remember correctly, Christ's
examples of doing good deeds were quite personal.

Of course, in case you haven't noticed, it's this consequence of
socialism that has rendered Europe largely soulless. Even
religion has to be subsidized now. There is very little private
charity in socialist countries, and why should there be? The state
takes care of everyone. They already pay for it all through their
taxes. So why should anyone give any more on their own?

So, in case I haven't made myself clear, I do not consider
"passing the buck" to the government as having anything at all to
do with being a "Christian".

You have absolutely no idea how I care about my neighbor, either
in terms of my time or money spent. I won't bother to give you
specifics (I couldn't tell you the hours anyway since I do not count
them) but suffice it to say that at least in dollars, it's far more than
such icons of progressivism as the Clintons, Gore, Biden and
Obama gave (both in real dollars and percentage of income)
before they ran for national office and all of a sudden realized
that people would be looking. (and most of them were multi-
millionaires, by the way) Not that that those comparisons alone
should impress you, since many of their annual contributions
were usually in the 3-digit range. I know plenty of good Christians
far poorer than I am who've given much more than these heroes
of the state.

To those of a progressive view, "charity" appears measured by
almost entirely by how much of other people's money is
spent on something other than their own money, time or effort
outside of the voting booth. That's a very lazy ideology that
demands nothing of a citizen other than his blind allegiance to the
state. "Rendering unto Ceasar" does not imply that you've done
good for your neighbor by default.

I'm used to your poorly aimed attempts at personal insults. But I
think you owe Christians an apology for using Christianity as a
cheap political prop for your agenda.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
RE: PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness
An interesting aspect is that in Europe, and I'm including the UK, I am sure many procedures and devices cost less, because the government run health care systems negotiate the prices....
The members are not in the pockets of Big Med....

I had a stroke, and one of the affects I have is drop foot....Essentially, I trip over my toes on that foot..I wear a brace....

There is an electronic device that can eliminate that...Cost in the Us is way over $2000.....Price in England is $400....Same device, same brand...

Perhaps this is a way to ameliorate the cost/benefit harshness....
Posted by Mad Axeman
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Mad Axeman
I had forgotten volume pricing as a way to lower costs. Efforts to do
this under Medicare were fought fiercely by the pharmaceutical
industry, but they continue through the VA. If you need drugs, find
yourself a hero, is a cruel but accurate joke at the expense of this.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
JohnMcGrew@...
Who told you insurers have to live up to contracts?Ever hear of
binding arbitration, or insurance company lawyers? Sheesh. At
least when government tells you no you can go to the public and
get them to change things. Not so with insurers.

That said, the point is that any common pool must have limits if
it's to work for everyone. This is Psych 101. The choice between
public and private pool matters less than this principle.

Which you have yet to address.

It's not a straw man.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
So there it is.
At least when government tells you no you can go to the public
and get them to change things.

Oh yeah. So much better odds there. But at least you have
admitted that addressing any grievance regarding care will hinge
entirely upon on politics. Such an improvement over the current
system.

And I have addressed limits before. It's just that you've usually
tuned out by then, because you never respond to the question:
What is the big difference between a private insurer setting a limit
and saying "no" vs the government?

Never mind. You already answered. I guess the difference will be
one's ability to go to the public and get them to change
things.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Oh, and by the way...
...if my insurance company does misbehave, I also have the option
to go to the public and get them to change things.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Care to address the question,John?
The question asked by this article is about comparative
effectiveness, the choices that must be made for any common pool
to survive.

Answer it, please.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
6th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
RE: PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness
Comparative effectiveness study is the way to go!

The key issue for this product is that the high price comes with highly questionable "efficacy" that remains unconvincing to many investigators. The observed survival difference appears related to the "placebo", rather to provenge (that has no antitumor activity demonstrated). The survival difference should not be attributed mechanically to provenge and considered as an improvement in survival! To think how a man is on the Moon when you do not see any shuttle activity.

Does it work in the real practice world that does not use placebo for treatment? or does it work better than cheap docetaxel? CMS is obligated to find out with conducting comparative studies.

We should not abuse our taxpayers' money for something highly questionable! Should CMS continue to cover if comparative studies show no survival difference between patients treated with and without the product? What about another product costing 150,000 comes to market few years later? Will CMS cover this one without asking a question?

It is time to change CMS coverage practice for the future. Comparative pharmacoeffectiveness studies are what we have to utilize more to protect our system from being abused and from being collapsed as a result of abuse.
Posted by Responsible Citizen
7th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
"That?s why so much of health innovation is done here. We pay for it."
That's just one reason why government provided universal health
care is a bad idea. Much of the innovation stops as it has in
many places.

As to Provenge, if it costs no more than current chemotherapy
treatments, how is this driving up health care costs for an
insurance company to approve it? It simply sounds like additional
options at the same cost.

Also, how does approval of Provenge stop continued research in
the areas you mentioned? If they are later approved, then those
treatments could be used instead of Provenge if they prove to be
cheaper, more effective courses of treatment.

In an ideal situation, what does or does not get approved or
covered by insurance should be solely up to the insurer and
insurance policies should be purchased by individuals not by
governments or employers. In that situation, the free market acts
as the rationer which is a much fairer situation than relying on
politicians and bureaucrats to be fair

As to Medicare approving it, there shouldn't *be* a Medicare.
Government should be the referee in the economy, not a player.
Posted by sullivanjc
7th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
sullivanjc
Please, tell your friends and relatives who are over 65 there
should be no such thing as Medicare. Please tell them before
November. I think they need to hear it.

PROVENGE does not cure, it does not prevent, it does not end a
fatal disease process. It doesn't even hope or pretend to do so --
unlike chemotherapy, which is successful in many cases. That's a
key difference.

I have no objection to people buying this with their own money. I
just don't like them buying it with my money. And an insurance
payment is my money. The policy of the insurance company
determines what happens to my money. And since 1945 those
policies have been set by state insurance commissioners, who
can (if they choose) decide you must have reimbursements for
prayer. That's the case in several states.

Point is, there is a refusal on this thread to address the real
issue, which I will repeat one more time, since everyone seems to
have missed it. Should drugs like this be paid for out of a
common pool, and what should be the rule on what is paid for
from such a pool?

Answer that question and you can deal with health care costs, no
matter whose system is in place. Refuse to answer it, as is the
case on this thread, and you have no hope of it, under any
system.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
7th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
RE: PROVENGE tests the concept of comparative effectiveness
I have told my friends and relatives over 65 how I feel about
Medicare (and Social Security). Some agree, the overwhelming
majority don't. Big surprise. That doesn't make them right and
me wrong.

Given the key difference you point out (and I overlooked), if I'm
the insurance guy, I probably don't approve it. If it has zero
chance of improving health, it serves basically no purpose.
However if some competitor of mine wants to approve it, that's
their (or should be their) choice It should not be up to the
government.

The rules on the pool should be determined by those who
created and run the pool. It should be up to the individual to
decide which pool, if any they belong to. Government
interference has attacked that principle from both sides. Pointing
out (what I already know) that insurance commissioners and other
government regulatory bodies make those decisions is just
pointing out what I think should be undone, - not what there
should be more of.
Posted by sullivanjc
7th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
sullivanjc
What you seem to be saying is it's "caveat emptor" as far as what
is or isn't in the pool.

You want to get rid of all state insurance regulators, then?
Because right now that's just the kind of decision they do make.
And that's the system you were supposedly supporting in
opposing health reform.

What I think is going to happen, what I hope will happen going
forward, is Medicare will make decisions for itself and Medicaid
concerning the public pool and private carriers will follow suit
because it's in their financial best interest.

As opposed, say, to making consumers guess.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
7th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
I'm not exactly sure what you want me to answer.
Private insurance has been practicing "comparative
effectiveness" all along. Ironically enough, it's the advocates of
socialized medicine who have been the biggest critics of this,
usually only because there's a profit motive involved. They
usually claim that denying care is "unfair".

So are you asking me that if the state does it, does that make it
any more fair?

What tends to confuse most progressives about economics is that
economics isn't (or shouldn't be) about moral judgements. It's
about studying allocations of resources, and the consequences
of decisions.

I'd say that it's not an issue of "fair" or "unfair". It's simply an
issue of "is".
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
10th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
JohnMcGrew@...
No, not really. Insurers have been practicing managed care,
which is something quite different from comparative effectiveness.

Intermountain Health practices comparative effectiveness. They
call it best practices. They know what to do in every situation, and
they're working with GE to automate that knowledge and spread it
around.

Comparative effectiveness, of course, is evolving. We can get to
what's most effective at lowest cost for the largest number
through population studies. That's what EHRs can give us,
compatible and comparative data that can tell doctors what the
best course is, more reliably.

And why does Intermountain do what they do? Because they're
both a buyer and seller of services. They have financial
incentives to do that.

That's what we're moving toward with health reform. Links
between buying and selling. Incentives to do the most cost-
effective thing first.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
10th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
And private insurance doesn't have an economic incentive to do the same?
Either way, it doesn't matter. We can talk all day long about
"comparative effectiveness" vs "managed care". But the reality is
that most of the other government run systems are simply
practicing "cost cutting".

I'll at least commend you for advocating the former. But the
reality is that with a system run by a political establishment with a
vast array of priorities that are not necessarily focused on our
well-being, I'm expecting the latter.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
11th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Comparative Effectiveness vs. Cost Cutting
They are not the same thing. The former is based on science, on
creating and enforcing best practices across a system. It need not
impact care quality, as the example of Intermountain has shown.

Economic incentives were needed for this to take off. Those
incentives are now in place. But in the process of winning health
reform, supposedly, comparative effectiveness studies were
prohibited from delivering recommendations. Which is pure stupidity.
Posted by DanaBlankenhorn
11th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
And pure stupidity is what we'll get...
...because in the end, health care reform is more about politics than
delivering health care.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
12th Aug 2010
0 Votes
+ -
Speaking of politics, did you see that...
...Harry Reid finally got around to reading the bill, and isn't happy
with it?
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
27th Aug 2010
Join the conversation
Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]

Join the SmartPlanet Community and join the conversation! Signing-up is free and quick, Do it now, we want to hear your opinion.