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President Obama assails “flat Earth society” energy critics

By | March 15, 2012, 11:22 AM PDT

A model of a flat Earth. (Image credit: Wikipedia Commons)

A model of a flat Earth. (Image credit: Wikipedia Commons)

President Obama’s political opponents have seized upon his support of alternative energies to fault his administration for rising gas prices. Today, the President fought back, assailing his critics as being myopic members of a “flat earth society.”

It’s a presidential election year, and President Obama is presiding over a fragile economic recovery. Wages are stagnent, and rising gas prices have become a bread and butter issue for Americans. Republican presidential prospects took notice of the President’s falling approval numbers, which correspond with prices at the pump.

The Republicans have laid the blame squarely on President Obama, and have ridiculed his steadfast focus on an energy mix that includes renewable energy sources as well as energy efficiency. Here are some examples of what’s being said:

Mitt Romney: joked that Obama would put windmills on cars, and accused the President of living in an “imaginary” world where clean energy powers everything. Romney had called for action on climate change as recently as 2010.

New Gingrich: suggested that Air Force One be fueled by algae, accused Obama of being in “cloud cucckoo land,” and deemed alternative energy sources to be “leftist” technologies. He promised US$2.50 gas prices if elected.

Rick Santorum: rejects science as a hoax, having stated, “tell that to a Plant How Dangerous Carbon Dioxide is,” and attacked his rivals for having accepted climate change science - before they rejected it upon seeking higher office.

For kicks, here is a video of Gingrich and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi calling for energy innovation and action on climate change:

Now, president Obama has fired back, insulting his opponents’ alleged lack of vision. He compared the Republicans (in a straw man swipe) to ex President Rutherford B. Hayes, who marveled at the invention but thought that nobody would ever want to use a telephone. Left leaning political Web site Talking Points Memo captured Obama’s comments today. Obama said:

“Now, here’s the sad thing. Lately, we have heard a lot of professional politicians, a lot of the folks who were running for a certain office, who shall go unnamed, they’ve been talking down new sources of energy. They dismiss wind power. They dismiss solar power. They make jokes about biofuels. They were against raising fuel standards. I guess they like gas guzzlers. They think that’s good for our future. We’re trying to move towards the future. They want to be stuck in the past.”

Meanwhile, Obama is forging a bilateral agreement with the United Kingdom to release strategic oil stocks in an effort to ease gas prices, TPM reports. Afterall, it is an election year, and he has described his energy policy as an “all of the above” type plan.

The President’s State of the Union address hailed record U.S. gasoline production (now the number one national export) and called for more oil and gas exploration. Indeed, the U.S. just became the leading exporter of dry natural gas. Whether Obama’s policies are what actually increased production is open to debate.

Obama has a right to defend himself. Failing to defend ones self against accusations - true or otherwise - is a political death sentence in today’s 24/7 soundbite and slogan driven zeitgeist. Sadly, it can’t be assumed that the public is informed on the issues or listens to information that is outside of their respective political viewpoints. America is deeply polarized.

What I object to is making light of a serious issue, and I am on Obama’s side on this one. Even if Republican candidates do not believe in manmade climate change, the consequences of inaction are too great for them to not suggest another physically plausible alternative. It is not constructive to politicize science and technologies.

Isn’t it time to take governance seriously?

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David Worthington

About David Worthington

David Worthington is a contributing editor for SmartPlanet.

David Worthington

David Worthington

Contributing Editor

David Worthington has written for BetaNews, eWeek, PC World, Technologizer and ZDNet. Formerly, he was a senior editor at SD Times. He holds a degree from Temple University. He is based in New York.

Follow him on Twitter.

David Worthington

David Worthington

David does not have financial holdings that would influence how or what he covers. Occasionally he consults for other companies; should David cover a topic in which a client is involved, he will disclose this fact in his writing. His views do not represent those of ScaleOut Software.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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+3 Votes
+ -
Just leave creep.
The man with no credible energy policy, beyond a stated and achieved goal of raising energy prices, should just go away.

One more observation. This is the first president who reminds me of grade school with all the name calling. Are we in 5th grade again? Just who is the adult in the room when a conversation starts with remarks like this?

Can the man ever talk about policy without childish name calling?

Before anyone cries racism. I have made the same comments about other presidents when they said something childish. Regardless of skin color.

I will admit to a few YOU MIGHT BE A REDNECK IN THE WHITE HOUSE remarks about Bush 43 and Clinton for some of their dumb comments.
Posted by Hates Idiots
Updated - 19th Mar 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
Every form of energy has a cost associated with it
The cost of fossil fuel dependence is high and getting higher: wars, environmental disaster, climate change, subsidies, etc. Look at how much the BP disaster cost taxpayers, and old coal power plants created significant health costs. Cheap has been our longstanding energy policy, but artificially cheap oil isn't a policy that's worth continuing. Doesn't it make sense to examine the cost of each energy source and consider its merits? Oil is a part of the mix, as are renewables and conservation. GE wouldn't be in the solar business if it wasn't going to make money. There's no one solution, and it's impossible to drill enough to significantly lower gasoline prices on the global market. How is anyone who says gas can magically be $2.50 or that science is a hoax credible?
Posted by David Worthington
Updated - 15th Mar 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Suck it up if you do not like the facts.
In 2008 candidate Obama said flat out he wanted to see significantly higher prices on the cost of electricity to encourage conservation.

Almost from day one his Secretary of the Department of energy, Steven Chu, has repeatedly said it is the administrations goal to raise the cost of gas in the US to European levels of $8 to $10 per US gallon.

Since the cap and trade act died in the democrat controlled senate they have resorted to using regulatory authority to drive up the cost of gas.

The EPA has used obscure regulations to shut down refineries while the SEC has completely eliminated the rules governing oil and gas future purchases and sales to the point where over 20 percent of the pump price is speculator profit.

It should be noted that such speculation in gasoline was illegal prior to the 1990s. Starting with Bush 41 and accelerating with each administration since, speculators have been allowed to take over the flow of gas in the US.

The Obama administration has dropped all remaining regulations allowing a complete profit taking free for all to dominate the market.

For a president who loves to rail on the rich, he is doing his best to make a few friends very wealthy.

All facts the so called energy experts on this site chose to ignore.

I love when the truth hurts. Bring on the negative ratings.
Posted by Hates Idiots
Updated - 16th Mar 2012
+5 Votes
+ -
Except you ignore the world
Gasoline prices have been going up around the world, even in OPEC countries. Why should the US be any different?

You can try to blame it on Obama, but the truth is it's market pressures. There is no conspiracy here. The Chinese and Indians are buying more of the stuff, thus increasing demand. Demand goes up, the price goes up. Basic economics. The U.S. is not the only market for oil in the world.

And as Smart Planet blogger Chris Neider will point out, get use to it. The Chinese and the Indians are not going away. The U.S. is a small market compared to either China or India, and they're going to be outbidding the U.S. on oil for some time to come. The only direction prices can go without being subsidized is up.
Posted by mheartwood
16th Mar 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Place the blame where it is due.
Oil prices are going up everywhere because we're inflating the dollar through cheap money Fed policy and neo-Keynesian fiscal policy. The Europeans who the current Administration so admires pays twice what we do because they tax it heavily. They do this not so much to discourage use or for environmental remediation but because they have massive welfare states to support.

It's fair enough to debate if higher oil cost are a good thing or not, but this "flat Earth" nonsense is not intended to stimulate intelligent debate; it's intended to obscure the issue before an election. This administration wishes to have it both ways,
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
19th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
FACTS
The fact is that the demand for oil is expanding and the supply is shrinking. It does not matter who is president or what party holds power the cost of energy is going to go up if we don't find alternatives.
Posted by k8 br
16th Mar 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Refineries shut down?
If all of those refineries are being shut down how is it that the US is exporting refined gasoline?
Posted by riverat1
16th Mar 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Low US demand
Demand for refined oil products in the US is actually lower than in years past. For the present, this leaves refiners with excess capacity even with shutdowns mandated by the EPA. As a result, they are exporting refined products to where they can get a better price. This will go on until the price in the US matches the global price minus transportation costs.

It's all supply and demand.
Posted by zackers
17th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Reduced refinery production also tied to shift in output
It is well documented that middle distillate refinery products such as diesel fuel, kerosene and jet fuel have higher profit margins and increased demands, so refiners are cutting back on gasoline production in order to make more money on these products. For more information, check out:
ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/features/distillateprod.pdf

I daresay that the 'ol profit motive is more of a factor than those pesky folks from the EPA, Hates Idiots, in terms of higher prices, although speculation is always a significant factor. I daresay that if the President were saying what the Republican candidates are spouting off about in terms of sabre rattling with Iran, the prices would be even higher.
Posted by klassman6
17th Mar 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
What shutdowns?
Can you point to a specific example of a refinery that the EPA mandated be shut down. I haven't heard of such a thing.
Posted by riverat1
19th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Though you are accurate in your statements, you are missing the point.
The intension was not to raise the price of oil. Higher priced oil is a natural consequence of the required actions. Additionally, the higher price for oil would provide the necessary impetus to commit greater resources to developing alternative energy sources.

Oil in the US has been subsidized for many years. At the same time that the US Government was borrowing money from China to fund governmental cost overruns they reduced the fuel tax at the pump to artificially keep the price of gas lower. The US military has been used repeatedly around the world to stabilize oil producing regions so that the flow of oil is not interrupted and prices are reasonably stabilized. The US has historically been the largest consumer of oil globally and has had great bargaining power to suppress prices as our own reserves could be used as leverage. With the increased demand globally, especially from fast growing economies, such as China and India, our leverage is starting to mean a little less to the global suppliers at the same time it appears that the supply of oil is at levels that most analysts estimate are not sustainable for too much longer. These are some of the pressures that are causing oil prices to escalate. The increased demand and limited supply was predicted long ago and has been largely dismissed. Obama is not the first to suggest that prices need be higher for oil and considering that oil is used to make everything from plastics to medicine, fertilizer and detergents as well as fuel it might be better to conserve the natural resource if alternative energy can extend the availability of the supply.

Perhaps it would be wise to consider how the rest of the world is attempting to control energy cost before we condemn the Obama initiatives. China built the largest hydro power dam in the world (Three Gorges Dam, 22,500 MW) followed by Brazil/Paraguay (Itaipu Dam 14,000 MW). Out of the 25 largest hydro power facilities in the world the US has 1. Out of the largest 53 hydro power plants in the world the US has 6 with a total power generation capacity of 17,807 MW. By comparison within the top 53 facilities globally the total hydro power production of China is 54,615 MW and Brazil is 35,337 MW. China has additional dams in progress that are due to start coming online in 2015 that will increase production to 95,745 MW and the Grand Inga Dam on the Congo River is in the planning stages that will bring online the largest producing dam in the world with 39,000 MW in a single dam. To put things in perspective, the US has over 8100 total dams nationwide and generates about 7% of the total power consumed within its borders. As environmentalists are lobbying for the removal of dams in the US the rest of the world is building them as quickly as they can.

The approximate cost to build the largest wind farm in the world as of April 2010 (Churns, TX) was about $1 Billion and provides 781.5 MW of power which is enough for about 230,000 homes. By comparison the cost of the Iraq war is estimated to be about $470 Million per day for the 14 year period from 2006 till 2017 when accounting for direct cost and interest on the funds borrowed to conduct operations and does not include associated cost such as veteran benefits or long term health care. The cost of the average large deep sea drilling platform for oil exploration is estimated to be between $700 Million to $1 Billion and has a daily operating cost of $600,000 to $1,000,000. So, to put some perspective on these estimates, we could double the size of the world???s largest wind farm and provide power to an additional 230,000 homes for the life of the windmills (20 to 30 years) for the same amount that we as a nation spent for two days fighting a war to stabilize a region so that oil could be harvested. Or, as the current cost to build a wind generator are about $1.28 Million per MW capacity, for the cost of two days operation expenses for a deep sea oil drilling platform while exploring for oil (and not necessarily finding it) a windmill could be funded that would provide electricity for the life of the windmill (20 to 30 years) to 294 homes.

Great, but you may ask "how does this relate to the conversation?" When Obama was saying that he wanted the price of gas to match what they are paying in Europe he was not saying he wanted to raise the prices (if I can presume to speak for the President) instead, he was saying that we need to let the market set the price for oil and stop artificially repressing the price. The expectation is that when the US consumers start seeing the true price of oil, which is already happening most everywhere else in the world, then it would become a priority to start developing alternative energy sources in the US that would bring our energy policy in line with where the rest of the world has been heading for a while now. The existing policy gives priority to established energy sources and further disadvantages renewable resources. For example, when a windmill farm and coal fired facility are both feeding power to the grid in the same region and there is a surplus of power being produced the wind farm is required to turn off capacity to allow the coal fired plant to provide the power service. This is one of the factors that is overlooked when comparing the cost of wind and solar power to the cost of coal power. We as a nation are ahead of others in total production capacity for renewable energy production as of the end of 2010, but are behind in the development of new renewable resources projects and much of our hydro power facilities are now 50 years old or more. We are not so much behind that we can't catch up if we act now. The fact is that manufacturing and industry will historically relocate to areas with the lowest overall cost and the big three costs factors are labor, energy and transportation of raw and manufactured goods. The growth around Las Vegas was largely promoted by the low cost power generated by the Hoover Dam. Now the Hoover Dam is barely holding on to the top 50 list of hydropower generation plants globally and will probably be displaced from the list within the next 10 years. Simply put, if you want to bring industry and manufacturing back to the US, first you will need a supply of low cost energy. Our energy model is based on an outdated power grid that will become less able to compete in the global marketplace as other nations develop their energy production plans. As other nations develop their industry, example Hon Hai / Foxcon, their national standard of living will increase and place greater pressure on expendable resources which will drive prices higher as we compete to purchase those same resources.
The Soviet Union was once a global superpower and was not defeated by an army, but was rendered inconsequential by bankruptcy. The US government is heading in the same direction and their energy policy is one of the horses that are pulling the cart. If some substantial change is not made in the practice of subsidizing the oil industry and large investments in renewable energy projects and the distribution grid are not made the next economic crisis in the US will likely be triggered by energy costs. Though Obama may not have the ultimate answer, his administration has at least been working in the right direction from the perspective of a diversified energy policy.
Posted by james.graham@...
16th Mar 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
One term Barry
Hopefully he will be a lame duck come November.
Posted by Rodo1
16th Mar 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
Mandates
I don't mind alternative energy sources.. in fact, I grew up in a house that got the majority of it's hot water from a solar water heating system. But I don't think that today's alternative energy sources are yet viable replacements. Solar is a good start, but with the average cell having 9% efficiencies, and wind or tidal power being intermittent at best, these energy sources just can't replace what we currently use. Not yet...
So what gets me are mandates...don't tell me that I have to use a certain amount of renewable energy just because you tell me so...the energy you are forcing me to use just isn't cost effective yet. I see no reason why I should be spending more money than I have to just to power my equipment. I'll use whatever energy is most cost effective for me.
Posted by tech_ed@...
16th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Check the track record, not the mandates
You act like renewable energy is a concept and not an actuality, when the lion's share of new energy production in the US for the past several years has been from renewables, not coal or nuclear, and if the economic environment remains conducive, this trend will continue. You seem to imply that it's either-or, when that has never been part of any "mandate" that I've ever seen. The goal I've seen from the EIA is that 20 percent of electrical generation in the US could be produced by 2050, and there are already days in Texas, Colorado and Iowa where that goal is surpassed.

And as far as prices, I believe new installed wind is cheaper than any alternative including new installed coal, so start looking for buying electricity generated from wind.
Posted by klassman6
17th Mar 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
RE:Check the track record, not the mandates
And the only reason the wind "power" has done is it's nearly 50% subsidized by the government and will never be able to even break even. Guess who pays for that? Maybe the Fed will just print more money and drive up the cost of petroleum. As for solar, the calculated best estimate of payback time is 42 years. The panels probably won't function for even half that time.

OBTW, the wind power and solar industries were heavy contributors to the administration's campaign. Funny thing, the new installation of mega-million dollar solar array at the Denver Federal Center was done by a campaign contributor and surprise of surprises was a recipient of a major "stimulus" grant/loan.

Follow the money.....
Posted by GregGold
Updated - 20th Mar 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
Subsidies
You completely ignore the subsidies that fossil fuels receive, far more than renewable energy.

BTW, your 42 year payback time for solar is way off. Some projects have had paybacks as short as 5 years. It depends on the cost of the electricity it replaces. Solar PV modules are selling for less than $1 per Watt this year.
Posted by riverat1
20th Mar 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
RE:Subsidies
With all due respect, you should have a conversation with the spokesman for the federal center, for 42 years is exactly the figure given - both in television interviews and in the Denver Post. They're not "MY" figures, they're the Federal Center's figures. This is craziness...it's like a religion.
Posted by GregGold
20th Mar 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
RE: RE: Subsidies
I wasn't talking about the Denver Federal Center but solar PV in general. The solar installation for the DFC cost $6.9 million and produces 1.6 million kWh per year. Current electricity rates in Denver are 10-11 cents/kWh which would yield a payback period in the 42 year range you mention. However electricity rates there have increase by 20% since 2007 and if that trend continues it will considerably reduce the payback period.

Ref: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19395466

As I said the payback period depends on the cost of the electricity you're replacing with it. Many places show a payback of less than 10 years: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/3/prweb9282391.htm

Here are a couple of other links I got from Google:
http://www.solarbuzz.com/node/32
http://www.costingagreenfuture.com/blog/?p=15

And you're still ignoring the subsidies that fossil fuels receive.
Posted by riverat1
Updated - 20th Mar 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
Bigger picture
Energy policy is just 1 of multiple areas where Republican presidential candidates have made irresponsible statements in pursuit of votes.
Posted by hoodedswan
16th Mar 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
Facts
Obama may be entitled to defend himself, but he should get his facts straight. Besides mispronouncing President Rutherford B. Hayes' name he misstated the facts about President Hayes and the telephone.
Posted by kybennett
16th Mar 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
If memory serves me...
Alexander Graham Bell refused to use it and he invented the thing. Sometimes I've wished it had never been invented, especially cell phones!
Posted by Rodo1
16th Mar 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Politics as usual
After reading all of this, my opinion is unaffected. An affirmed Independent, it bothers me greatly how the Media and the published Letters to Editors accross the nation blamed high gasoline prices on President Bush, but that isn't the case today.

I'm all for Alternative Energy, but have seen no great strides made in the last three years in the US - while I do hear about a number of developments made in China and Europe.

I do my best to minimize my pollution of the atmosphere and my use of fossil fuel.

I fail to see what Mr Obama has done to further energy efficiency. I can't see a coherent plan in place. I hear him using his office to criticize and blame others, but what has HIS administration accomplished?
Posted by kbmoose1@...
16th Mar 2012
-3 Votes
+ -
Increased fuel mileage standards
Among other things he got the auto makers to agree to increase their corporate average fuel economy to 54.5 mgp by 2025. That's pretty significant in my book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy#2011_agreement

(Added 3 days later) Wow, I post something factual and get a negative vote. I guess some people just can't handle the truth.
Posted by riverat1
Updated - 19th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Wind Power is a Significant Energy Source in Texas
That's right, here where we have have all the natural gas we'll ever need to make our electricity, we also have (in parts of the state) lots and lots of wind. On several occasions, over 20% of the electricity put on the grid here has come from wind power.

That won't happen in the summer, of course, but this demonstrates that it is an important addition to our supply of electricity.

There are also alternatives that are practically free. "Free" in the sense that the a running process generates electricity as a by-product. My company has a Steam Methane Reformer running to produce hydrogen, and the "waste" energy is used to produce electricity. The day we set a record for wind power in the state, they told us to take that source offline because it wasn't needed. (At least, that's what I heard, and I'm not too many steps removed from the orders from ERCOT.)

As far as the effect of gasoline prices on the election, considering how early this run-up in prices is occurring, I wouldn't be surprised to see the price crash come before the election. We could be looking at $2.00 gasoline on election day regardless of what the administration does. (The same thing happened slightly later in the last election cycle, going from over $4.00 in the summer to under $2.00 by inauguration day.)
Posted by AlanLaRue
16th Mar 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
Solar PV
Texas ought to be installing lots of solar PV to help cover the peak air conditioning loads during summer afternoons. That's just about the perfect solution for those peak loads.
Posted by riverat1
16th Mar 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
The errors of Mr. Worthington's ways
"Even if Republican candidates do not believe in manmade climate change, the consequences of inaction are too great for them to not suggest another physically plausible alternative. It is not constructive to politicize science and technologies."

This shows the fuzzy-headed thinking that is at the basis of most greens. It's not just the "consequences of inaction", it's also the consequences of action. What will it cost to get the world off carbon? How much will the world economy be disrupted?

If it cost a "paltry" trillion, no big deal. But we are talking about replacing the world's entire energy infrastructure. We have to shut down otherwise perfectly good power plants and build new ones. We have to replace all our cars and trucks. What is the global capital value of all this? Easily in the tens of trillions.

Nobody has ever come up with reasonable replacements for all this. Wind and solar don't have viable storage options and currently can't replace oil in transportation. This is not just dry theory; we've seen the failure of Solyndra and the Chevy Volt in the marketplace despite massive government subsidies.

Greens talks about the "green economy" and how the jobs it will create will save us. But there's been no big surge in green jobs despite all the spending by Obama. You can hire a lot of people to dig holes in the ground too, but unless they have an useful purpose it won't do a thing. Economics is all about the most *efficient* allocation of resources.

Maybe there is a real danger from man-made global warming. Unfortunately, we don't currently have viable options that won't destroy the world's economy. We're spending a lot of money to come up with options, but they're just not here yet. So in the meantime, are we supposed to destroy the very economy that can provide and implement a solution when it comes?
Posted by zackers
17th Mar 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
You have your share of errors, too, sir
You say that the consequences of action needed to switch to a low carbon future would cripple and probably collapse our economy, but just making such a statement doesn't make it true. The process of transitioning to a low carbon economy is well underway and doesn't seem to be nearly as disruptive as you seem to think it will be. Seems that most citizens are seeing more and more the futility and distasteful consequences of continuing to spend tens of billions of dollars a month for years on end in wars to keep increasingly vulnerable channels open overseas, and as the climate warms, the consequences here at home are personal for more and more of us as well.

And regarding green jobs, where exactly are you getting your numbers? It's kinda hard to speak clearly about them simply because the first Bureau of Labor Statistics report on green jobs is not due out until this summer. Better get your licks in before there are real numbers to have to cope with, no? But given the fact that most green jobs have to do with the building trades, it would seem to me that green jobs are very productive indeed, paying for themselves through cost effective retrofits of existing stock, or building tighter buildings from scratch, both of which will pay their own way through reductions of wasted energy.
Posted by klassman6
17th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
we need to peel away the layers of greed to find the truth
i think that all energy products, ie oil, electricity, etc..., should not be traded on the stock market. until then, we really don't know what the true price of crude could be / should be.

i also know that crude oil will be depleted since it is not something that the earth produces, but an oily swamp resulting from the death of a prehistoric era of earth.

so what is the solution? perhaps, the solution is to go back to using horses pulling us around in wagons and carriages, and poor people pulling the rich people around in litter's.

the last idea might actually help the unemployment problem as well.
Posted by databaseben
17th Mar 2012
-5 Votes
+ -
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A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret watches



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Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Classic men WATCH 107.031 $181.00 Add:
Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Classic men WATCH 157.132 $182.00 Add:
Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Classic women WATCH 808.034 $188.00 Add:



Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Classic women WATCH 868.033 $190.00 Add:
Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Moonphase men WATCH 118.021 $189.00 Add:
Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Moonphase men WATCH 118.032 $188.00 Add:



Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Tourbillon men WATCH 703.025 $185.00 Add:
Replica A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret-Cabaret Tourbillon men WATCH 703.032 $185.00 Add:




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Posted by orgesonmosh
17th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
I dont think thats an insult
Calling the republicans the 'flat earth society', i think they would be flattered. The bible says the world is 10000 years old and so they believe that, so why not believe the world is flat too? It really doesnt matter what the truth is but what people believe.
Posted by goshes
18th Mar 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
RE: really doesnt matter what the truth is but what people believe.
Isn't that the truth, seems to apply to the green energy folks a great deal...there are facts and then there is faith and desire - the latter seems to lead to forcing whether it makes sense or not.
Posted by GregGold
20th Mar 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Obama the Name-Caller-in Chief
He blames every ill on someone else.
He name-calls and labels anyone who disagrees with him.
He promised that "energy costs would neccessarily skyrocket" under his energy policy.
He doles out monie to his cronies and allies in the form of "stimulus".
He creates scapegoats instead of forming answers.
He studied under a man who wrote the book for the Have-Nots on how to take away from the Haves, and for organizing the masses for mass power- mob rule.
Posted by bb_apptix
10th Apr 2012
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