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CERN’s faster-than-light neutrinos: It’s a Do-Over

By | October 28, 2011, 4:28 AM PDT

The Swiss physics lab says it will send the subatomic particles packing one more time to try to spot mistakes in last month’s blazing discovery.

CERN scientists are so baffled by the neutrinos that appear to have travelled faster than light that they’re running the experiment again, with a twist.

When the Geneva physics lab first announced its perplexing findings last month, it appealed to scientists around the world to help spot flaws that would disprove the results.

In response, physicists have postulated everything from basic miscalculations to esoteric explanations that the neutrinos burrowed through some undiscovered dimension.

Now, according to the BBC, CERN will try to repeat the results running an experiment that will be slightly different from the original.

Last month’s findings came through serendipity. CERN had sent the neutrinos on an underground journey from Geneva to Italy’s Gran Sasso lab 455 miles (732 km) away near Rome, in order to note how many of them would flip from a muon state to a tau (diagram above).

But the neutrinos shocked the researchers by arriving 60 nanoseconds (60 billionths of a second) faster than the speed of light. If the result stands, it would upset Albert Einstein’s special theory of relativity that states that nothing travels faster than light does in a vacuum. The theory underpins much of modern physics.

CERN researcher Dario Autiero was surprised by the results.

CERN researcher Dario Autiero was surprised by the results.

Neutrinos are subatomic particles that can travel through gaps in atoms and through earth, which is how they ploughed under the Alps.

In the original experiment, the neutrinos started out within comparatively long pulses of proton beams before escaping and heading to Gran Sasso. Because the pulse lasts a long time the scientists had to take an average of neutrino departure and arrival times to make their calculations – a process that could be flawed, the BBC notes.

In the new experiment, CERN will fire the proton beams in much shorter pulses, so that they can more accurately pinpoint a neutrino’s departure time.

CERN plans to complete the experiment by the end of November.

Images: CERN

Additional blazing neutrinos:

And some antimatter musings:

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Mark Halper

About Mark Halper

Mark Halper is a contributing editor for SmartPlanet.

Mark Halper

Mark Halper

Contributing Editor

Mark Halper has written for TIME, Fortune, Financial Times, the UK's Independent on Sunday, Forbes, New York Times, Wired, Variety and The Guardian. He is based in Bristol, U.K.

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Mark Halper

Mark Halper

Mark has no financial holdings in the companies he writes about. He occasionally travels at the expense of companies or their press relations agencies in order to report on a company or industry event related to it; Mark will prominently disclose this information when appropriate. This relationship will have no influence on his coverage. Companies he covers do not get to review columns in advance, or select or reject topics.

He writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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+1 Vote
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Article vagueness
This article has left out important details. The neutrinos did not "start out within" with long pulses of protons -- they were created by those pulses, when the protons slammed into a graphite target. And long pulses were necessary to generate enough neutrinos to detect how often they transmuted between electron- and muon-neutrinos during the trip from Switzerland to Italy, which was the original purpose of this experiment.

This speed oddity was totally unexpected, and not part of the original experiment. Remember, if most of the neutrinos can pass through >700 km of rock, most of them will also pass undetected right through the lab's detector in Gran Sasso. So a large number of neutrinos was need. But the new experiment wont bother with detecting the flavor of the neutrinos, only their travel time, so fewer will be needed, therefore a shorter proton pulse can be used.

It would have been nice if the author had done another 10 minutes of research and mentioned that this result will also be re-tested next year with higher-precision atomic clocks by three groups of experimentalists: Gran Sasso, the US (Fermilab MINOS) and Japan (T2K).
Posted by bradhansen@...
Updated - 28th Oct 2011
+1 Vote
+ -
GPS
The researchers used GPS to measure the distance as well as the timing of the beams. One possibility was that the researchers failed to account for the time delay between the GPS satellites, enough to account for the difference in timing.
Posted by sboverie
28th Oct 2011
-1 Votes
+ -
it's accounted for
They wouldn't have used consumer grade gps equipment, the measurements would be made with costly surveying equipment, the same kind that detects tiny movement of earthquake faults and volcanoes. Timing delay between gps satellites is exactly how they work, the delay is measured to find position.
Posted by kevinrs1
29th Oct 2011
+1 Vote
+ -
The Emmiter and Collector were in Different Time Zones.
The Neutrinos were traveling from an earlier Time Zone.
j/k
Posted by PieceofPaper51@...
31st Oct 2011
+1 Vote
+ -
Don't understand this experiment
I have not understood this experiment since day 1. Has anyone seen the details?

The article speaks of "a few billionths" of a second. In 1E-9 seconds, light travels 30 cm. The CERN to Umbria distance is 732 km. Does GPS provide an accuracy of 4 parts in 10 billion?

If particles are moving at light speed, a neutrino generation pulse duration of 1 nanosecond would produce a train of particles 30 cm long. If the detector is 3D, particles on the leading edge of the train might be detected at the end of the detector and vice versa. The fundamental problem seems analogous to measuring the speed of a train when you know when it left the station but at the observation point, you don't know whether you're looking at the locomotive or the caboose. I suppose you can handle the problem by integrating detector output over a time period equal to initiating pulse duration.

Makes me feel somewhat queasy but I supppose world class physicists will have worked through the theory.
Posted by 0David
31st Oct 2011
0 Votes
+ -
Yes
This speed oddity was totally unexpected, and not part of the original experiment. Remember, if most of the neutrinos can pass through >700 km of rock, most of them will also pass undetected right through the lab's detector in Gran Sasso. So a large number of neutrinos was need. But the new experiment wont bother with detecting the flavor of the neutrinos, only their travel time, so fewer will be needed, therefore a shorter proton pulse can be used.

If particles are moving at light speed, a neutrino generation pulse duration of 1 nanosecond would produce a train of particles 30 cm long. If the detector is 3D, particles on the leading edge of the train might be detected at the end of the detector and vice versa. The fundamental problem seems analogous to measuring the speed of a train when you know when it left the station but at the observation point, you don't know whether you're looking at the locomotive or the caboose. I suppose you can handle the problem by integrating detector output over a time period equal to initiating pulse duration.
Plumbing Houston
Posted by sashamart
9th Feb 2012
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