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97% of Americans overestimate cost of installing solar

By | April 26, 2012, 9:18 AM PDT

Ninety-seven percent American homeowners overestimate the cost of installing solar, according to a recent Harris interactive poll that illustrates public perception remains a major obstacle to adding more residential renewable energy to the grid.

The online poll, conducted on behalf of residential solar power company SunRun, found folks want to go solar. Nearly eight out of 10 of those who don’t already have solar panels say they would install a rooftop array if cost were not factor.  But according to the survey, the perceived costs are wildly out of whack with the real expense of installing solar. (See new note below)

Forty percent of the 2,200 adults surveyed think installing solar requires $20,000 or more in upfront costs. Only three percent accurately understand that installing solar can cost less than $1,000 upfront, which is possible because companies like SunRun, SolarCity and Sungevity all offer solar financing that allow homeowners to lease the panels without putting any money down. SunRun’s solar power service, also known as third-party-owned solar, is structured similarly to its rivals. The company owns, insures, monitors and maintains solar panels on the homeowner’s roof. In return, the homeowner pays a monthly rate over a 20-year period.

Market share for third-party solar has grown, particularly in California where it reached 75 percent of the home solar market in February of this year. In Massachusetts, the share for third-party solar is more than 80 percent.

Note: Based on some comments, I thought I’d add more information about solar leases. A solar lease is essentially a power purchase agreement or PPA. Utilities often enter into PPAs to buy power generated from large-scale solar and wind farms.

How it works

Generally, homeowners sign a long-term agreement between 10 and 20 years. Customers agree to pay a monthly fee for the solar electricity. That fee should be at a lower rate (on average over a year) than what the customer is currently paying their utility. In return, the solar provider takes on the responsibility and cost of installation and maintenance of the panels.

Solar leasing experiment

Out of curiosity, I recently went through the process of getting a quote for a solar system. Here’s what I found out:

The solar provider suggested I install a 6 kilowatt system (the average residential is 5 KW). If I skipped the lease option and bought the system outright it would cost roughly $38,000. State and local rebates and federal tax credit would cut $13,000 off the price. In the end, I would spend $25,000.

If signed up for the lease, those state, local and federal incentives would go to the solar provider and my fees would be lower as a result.

If I put $0 down, my lease payment would average $115 a month and my electricity bill would average $17, for a total cost of $132 a month. Without solar (this information is based on eight months of my utility bills), I would pay an average of $91 a month. So, under that scenario, I’m actually spending about $500 more a year. The lease payments would be subject to annual increase of 2.9 percent.

To be clear, since I’ve lived in my current house for less than a year, I’m missing the most important months (summer) of utility bills.  With a full year of my own electricity consumption information, I’d expect those numbers to shake out a little differently. I wouldn’t expect massive savings, but I would probably break even or see a small reduction in my energy bill.

Leasing would be a good option for folks who consume a lot of power, have high electricity bills (I’m an energy efficiency nut and thereby my bills are below average) and live in areas where there are local and state incentives.

So what happens if you move? According to the solar provider I checked out, you can assign the lease to the new homeowner, if they pass a credit check, you can prepay the remaining lease payments and assign the benefits and non-financial obligations to the new owner; purchase the system; or prepay the remaining lease payments and have the panels removed for no additional fee.

Photo: Flickr user Jeda Villa Bali, CC 2.0

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Kirsten Korosec

About Kirsten Korosec

Kirsten Korosec is a contributing editor for SmartPlanet.

Kirsten Korosec

Kirsten Korosec

Contributing Editor

Kirsten Korosec has written for Technology Review, Marketing News, The Hill, BNET and Bloomberg News. She holds a degree from Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. She is based in Tucson, Arizona.

Follow her on Twitter.

Kirsten Korosec

Kirsten Korosec

Kirsten does not have financial holdings that would influence how or what she covers.

She writes for SmartPlanet and is not an employee of CBS.

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61
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+10 Votes
+ -
A credit card culture
Just because you can get solar installed by making a small payment upfront completely ignores the total cost of ownership. As with any leasing agreement (e.g., cars) you are basically financing the solar company's investment in the solar cells on your roof. As such, among other things you are paying the interest rate on the money the solar company must borrow so it can purchase and install solar cells on your rooftop. It would be better to see if you can take out a loan and finance the purchase yourself. Quite often there are state and local assistance programs for renewable energy which offer loans with lower rates, or otherwise subsidize the purchase. If you purchase the solar cells yourself, you can usually get a tax credit which you can't if the solar cells remain owned by the solar company.

Ignoring the overall cost is a bit like thinking the cost of something you purchase on your credit card is only the minimum monthly payment. It's the kind of thinking that a decade ago got people to sign mortgages with balloon payments that they never could afford. I wouldn't sign a deal with one of these solar companies unless their contract spelled out all the costs, including the effective interest rate that I would be paying.
Posted by zackers
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
criticism?
@Zackers,

Is this a criticism or are you reminding us that solar services offer a similar relationship as energy consumers presently have with their electric utility? Of course these solar contracts have the advantage of insulating consumers against any increases in the price of utility generated electricity.

Consumers should buy their solar infrastructure, but there are still many scenarios where this isn't possible. More options are a good thing!
Posted by the jaq
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
lease
more importantly your only leasing the solar panels not actually buying them, cause this also means if they get smashed by golfball sized hale you might not be resonable for replacements but I could be wrong on that.
Posted by ru_black1971@...
27th Apr 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
I couldn't agree more, there are hidden costs to leasing solar panels
Zackers in correct: Not only are you paying a higher interest rate, but you are locked into a long term financial deal that may not be in your best interest. Every Power Purchase Agreement is different, but one thing is constant: Complex financial agreements shouldn't be entered into without high level financial/legal/commodities analysis. Often these companies sell you products at a higher rate, and then put a management fee/profit into your repayment schedule. You could get a loan from the bank for 6%, but you will pay 7-12% through a lease agreement. Is there an early payment penalty? What happens if the company goes bankrupt? These agreements are very complex. You really have to know the economics that are driving the business points.

It isn't that this process should never be used, but only after a very high level of due diligence is performed. This level of due diligence can only be performed by someone who is involved in the purchase of electricity and has a high level of financial acumen. This process shouldn't be taken lightly if you want to do Solar for financial reason. Some people want to do solar for moral or social reasons; to which I say GREAT. But I believe most American's have very scarce resources and MUST spend their money wisely, insuring they get a moderate return. I advocate looking to a financial investment club to do the analysis. It might take a couple of years to find the right deal, but when you do you will be able to "Do well and do good"! Food for though
Posted by JT4
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
really
There are hidden cost in everything, that does not mean its not a good idea. Unless solar power moves forward the chances of investment in it will dwindle because its all about profits and the rest of the energy industry is already subsidize so that prices stay artificially low.
Posted by Kiljoy616
25th Apr
+4 Votes
+ -
Lower entry
Agree with the above poster.
Lowering the cost barrier to entry is great but it may still not make financial sense to lock into a "solar mortgage". I love the idea of solar but unless it can pay for itself rapidly, it doesn't make sense (cents??).
How much savings can be generated over 20 years to justify $30K + interest + fees? $1500 minimum annually just to pay for itself? I have my doubts.
Posted by hemophilic
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
options besides leasing
I think that what SunRun's poll and chart is attempting to depict, whether or not they did it well, is an option besides leasing or purchasing Solar Cells. I completely agree with you on the risks involved with leasing panels in relation to the "credit card mentality" too many Americans have. However, SunRun and other companies offer alternatives to leasing and purchasing, such as a Power Purchase Agreement. Its the same energy model 99% of the country shares with their standard utility provider. Essentially the homeowner only pays for they electricity that they use, not the panels or the wiring or the installation. And, if SunRun, or any other green tech utility can offer cleaner energy cheaper with no more risk than the contract that you already have with your own utility (PG&E, Edison, etc.) , why wouldn't you use it?
Posted by jps110
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Actually, you are ignoring a major benefit...
If you actually research what these companies offer, the monthly payment you make is not just to lease the equipment, but also you buy maintenance, insuring, and monitoring... So basically look at it as if you were switching power companies and this makes a lot more sense!

For myself, this opened my eyes to an opportunity for me (and the place I work at) to instantly reduce my power bill, and not have to worry about the maintenance and upkeep of the equipment. WOOT!
Posted by John_Shadow
Updated - 27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
long-term contracts
I'm curious how this leasing arrangement would work if you sign on for a 20-year lease and then sell your house and move in four years. Is the lease contract transferrable to the new owner? Is the new owner legally obliged to honor the lease contract?

Several years ago, I help a client in Virginia figure out whether to buy a $60,000 solar array for his roof. Yeah, $60,000 was the upfront cost. However, with tax credits both federal and state, his net cost came down to around $23,000. He then had a 4-1/2 year payback period, but most of his payback comes from the sustainable energy credits he gets from his utility company, not so much from the electricity the solar panels produces.

Still, the public needs more information and options on solar power. There are a lot of preconceived notions out there.
Posted by wally_altoona
Updated - 27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
The last paragraph answers your questions.
nt
Posted by ddferrari
Updated - 27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Notice What It Costs The Rest Of Us
It is all very well to say that it only costs the homeowner $23,000. But from a national point of view, that $37,000 subsidy could have been spent upon some other way of reducing the carbon footprint. The public needs to assess the value of solar power in terms of its total cost. We used to have a wind-and-solar technology for the drying of washed clothes. -- called a clothes line. I know of nobody in the suburbs who uses it. I am quite sure that the amount of wind turbine it would take to power my clothes dryer would be quite shocking compared with a clothes line.
Posted by SmartAlbert
30th Mar
+1 Vote
+ -
Second mortgage
Now that you have effectively put a second 20 year mortgage on your house. What happens when you sell the house in 5 years. And how will it affect potential buyers, ugly eyesore? Refuse to deal with the company that installed it? Where is the analysis to show the cost per kilowatt?
To borrow from an oil filter commercial, don't pay us now, just pay us later and pay us and pay us.
Posted by CSouthard
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Underestimate Solar but Overestimate Nuclear?
It strikes me that this article while critical of the total "cost" of Solar, it does nothing to equate Solar to the ever increasing costs of the other forms of energy. Take Nuclear for example, Solar can never cause a Trillion Dollar Eco-Disaster like in Fukushima which has now resulted in huge rate hikes and Global Pollution...

What is the "Payback" calculation on that?

Solar has the potential to end the "Energy Wars" and even bring as much Energy (including raw materials) as we need from Space if we allow that to happen! Here are a few books that explain how that could work if we stop depending on "OLD" forms of Energy:
The High Frontier by Gerard K. O'Neill,
Colonies In Space by A. Heppenheim??er.
The Third Industrial Revolution by G. Harry Stine
The Space Enterprise by Philip Robert Harris
Mining the Sky by John S. Lewis
Posted by CaptD
27th Apr 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Why don't you call them
And find out the answers to your questions instead of wildly speculating and bitching.

Here is a great post from the head of sustainability at Akamai that actually executed on this (PhD, mega-smart by the way) and tells you exactly how to calculate solar ROI based on her own experiences and the different things you should take into consideration when making your decision like the fact that the cost of electricity is sure to rise over the coming decades (but not with your solar system) and water used in electricity generation (over 1000 gallons per day per typical american household) is about 10X what your family uses on a daily basis - http://www.greencollareconomy.com/Green_Collar_Research/Calculating-ROI-For-Your-Solar-Project-Part-IV-of-IV.html

There are 3 more posts describing her experience right on this blog...check them out.
Posted by GreenCollar
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
Lease or 0 down, payment to own options.
I looked at SolarCity, they market heavily in New England, and there was no reason to do it other than waving the green banner.

The bottom line is there is not enough sun here to justify PV. On a good sunny month the combined lease, utility bill was break even with my current utility bill.

Most months I would be paying a combined lease, utility bill that would be 5 to 15 percent higher than my current utility bill.

Solar Citys numbers, not mine.

So unless I wanted to wave that I AM GREEN flag, why do it?

I am looking into a solar water heater. That will save me about 30 percent on my hot water heating and give me an ROI of about 6 years.
Posted by Hates Idiots
27th Apr 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
Solar water heater
You'd probably save more money by using an On-Demand water heater than using a solar powered on.
Posted by BrewmanNH
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
Unfortunately, the payback on "on demand" water heaters...
...isn't much better than that for solar panels.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Solar Water Heater
Solar water heaters supplement the heat to your hot water system by either adding the suns heat to a hot water storage tank or by preheating cold water before it gets into a conventional electric or gas water tank. In either case it can save a huge amount on your bill especially if you have teens who want 1/2 hour showers twice a day (don't pay for what they use - you do).
Posted by radiodog4@...
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
hot water
solar water heating is extremely simple and cheap , low maintenance and should be backed up with a small (or on-demand) gas heater, unless you are sure you have enough insulated storage and direct sun not to run out
Posted by MagnetBoy
1st May 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Reality check
Solar is a rounding error in our energy supply as shown in the EIA data. It is a high cost alternative to better sources of energy. To look at the "down payment" as the cost of solar is as silly as looking at a $60,000 car and evaluating it compared to paying cash for a $20,000 car. Solar is an OBSOLETE technology. Solar / thermal (see echofirst) is an emerging technology that is more mainstream. Where is the analysis of the monthly costs compared to today and alternatives? Where is the analysis of the degree to which this is simply subsidized power from the administration and the costs do not reflect any economic reality?
Posted by Diesel47
27th Apr 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Off-grider
The cost of solar in actual use is several times more than conventional power. The only reasons to go solar is to show how green you are and unfortunately how much you are willing to waste to appear to be green, or in my case because I wanted to be independent of the grid. In any case solar power is simply to high even with subsidies. The subsidies only apply if you are on-grid also which shows just how political this is and not about actually being green.
Posted by Original-gray2hairs
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Solar costs are high...
Get real! Your are paying financing fees -in addition to the costs of installation?
Until those fees are paid you are not benefitting from having solar, you are just using up the lifespan of an installed system while making monthly payments to the financer instead of the power company your supposed to be saving from.
Posted by james_lucier
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Some answers to your questions
Folks,

I've updated the piece about the Harris survey to add more information about solar leases, how they work etc. I recently went through a solar estimate process to find out what the real costs would be and learn a little more about this increasingly popular option. I describe what I found out above.

Hopefully, it addresses some of the questions asked in the comments section. To be clear, this isn't an endorsement of solar leases. The economics of leasing seem to work out best for homeowners who already want to add solar, but don't have the 25K on hand to buy it outright and, most importantly, who consume a lot of energy and live in states with decent incentives.
Posted by kirsten korosec
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Thanks.
Solar is a niche market even if they will not admit it.

Northern latitudes are not suited for PV, but solar hot water and solar space heating systems can be built by the average handyman for a reasonable price to defray, but not replace, the cost of using conventional sources.

My local school district is installing commercial solar space heaters on one of its cafeterias to defray heating costs. The situation is perfect. The building is on a slight grade with a huge south exposure wall at one end of the cafeteria that has no windows and gets lots of sun year round.

The solar space heaters are very affordable and have an expected ROI of just 5 years. They will not completely heat the space, but it will allow one conventional heating zone to be turned off.

The students have come up with a science project proposal to divert the hot air up some duct work in the summer and place a low speed turbine in the duct to generate electricity when the heat is not needed. Their own version of a solar tower.

For the relative low cost of the duct and turbine, if that produces enough energy to power just a few of the cafeterias ceiling fans the overall project ROI improves.
Posted by Hates Idiots
27th Apr 2012
+5 Votes
+ -
who pays??
"and live in states with decent incentives"
So solar is only a little more expensive than the power grid if someone else pays part of the bill??
Posted by pauc1
27th Apr 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Solar Power Costs
Installed equipment costs is not the ONLY consideration. Weather, especially sunlight, causes solar panels and exposed equipment to deteriorate, reducing output, and results in more replacement costs. In addition, battery degradation over time and charging cycles, even with today's advanced materials and design, will still require replacement, and costs. Are these also compiled as part of total costs?
Posted by mogul264
27th Apr 2012
-3 Votes
+ -
Perception v/s reality
There is a genuine need to investigate who is responsible for sustaining the high cost myth about Solar Energy.Worldwide this phenomenon is present in varying degrees. Existing commercial interests in the conventional energy forms and Diesel Generators have had a significant role in creating and sustaining the myth of high costs about all Renewable Energy forms.
Posted by CEEYESSAAR
27th Apr 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
MYTH?
CEEYESSAAR, all you have to do is take away the subsidies and you will see a different picture. Without subsidies all forms of renewable energy are substantially higher over the lifespan of the equipment. That is no myth. I began installing solar hot water systems in Southern Cal in the 70's and they were only cost effective while the government provided the %55% tax credit. Once the tax credit was dropped only people who wanted to save the planet by spending excess of money bought the systems. I live off-grid, not because it is cheaper because it is not. I live off-grid because of the high level of insanity currently controlling the country and I would rather not have to deal with it.
Posted by Original-gray2hairs
27th Apr 2012
-2 Votes
+ -
Subsidies?!
How about the subsidy that fossil fuels receive by not having to pay the cost that the pollution they produce? How about the subsidy that nuclear power receives when the government guarantees the loans made to construct them and limits the liability the owners are exposed to in case of a major event? Don't kid yourself, all energy sources are subsidized in one way or another.
Posted by riverat1
27th Apr 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
Tired of hearing about subsidies and downside to renewable, but people conv
You are correct about other energy sources being subsidized. Why must the American navy keep shipping lanes open and protect oil tankers and cargo ships from pirates. It is unbelievable these multinational companies have the gall to ask the American taxpayer by way of the high defense budgets to pay to protect their products from being hijacked on the trip back to USA. Need to add the cost of keeping military bases such as the 5th fleet in Bahrain and other countries where the people do not want us. To stay in these countries not only cost us billions of dollars, but ends up costing us our security because we have backed dictators for our gain but at the expense of the people of these countries. One needs only to look at what happened in Iran in 1953. People need to understand that in 1953 the CIA & M6 interfered with Iran???s leadership.If you want to read what happened search Operation TPAJAX. We need to remove our troops. Let the oil companies pay to keep the shipping lanes open. That way people will find out what the true cost of a barrel of oil actually costs. Many other countries also need this oil, again why are they not at least paying the USA to keep shipping lanes open This is just another handout to the oil and gas companies. If you add military costs, cleanup cost and environment damage to the cost of nuclear, oil, gas and coal, people would understand the least expensive energies are renewable
Posted by dennyinusa
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Solar in partnership with the Electric Company
I don't see solar power taking off until the Electric Utilities are willing to partner with homeowners. Where I am the solar would supplement the power consumption but would not be enough for all our needs.
Posted by daliere@...
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Voice of experience here
I am a proud photon farmer, with a 3.5KWh Aleo array on my roof. Here's some simple advice.

If a third party can install these, charge you less per month for your electricity, and still make a substantial profit, CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN.

Heck with "green" rhetoric. If - and this is a big "if" - you have the setting for solar and the savings to buy, it's the best investment decision you will make this millennium. If your savings account is making .05% on your twenty grand, you're making banksters richer and losing ground to inflation.

I am in sunny Southern California, so your situation will be different, but I spent $20K up front for my solar. LADWP rebated over $6K back in less than three months, and the feds gave me about $4k in tax credits, so all in I spent only about $9K.

My electric bill was about a hundred a month. My gas bill about $50. My solar panels have been running my meter backwards since the install late last year. I turned off my gas heater and put a couple electric oil filled Kenwoods around the house. My electric bill is now zero and my gas bill has been cut in half. The panels shade the biggest, sunniest section of roof on my house, so the attic stays much cooler, too.

The math:
$9,000 invested.
$125 a month saved X 12 months = $1500 annual savings on my investment.
---------------------------------------------
6 years to recoup investment. But this is not the whole picture. That $1500 savings is tax free - if I bought a vending machine that paid $1500 a year and applied that to my electric bill, it'd be taxable income first. Savings are not taxable, so $1500 saved is about $1900 earned in my tax bracket. And when the panels are paid off, I own the asset and will earn with it for an additional 19 years guaranteed.

Bottom line: where else are you going to invest nine grand for a guaranteed $1500 a year "income," tax free? If rates go up ( I know.."when" not "if") your investment goes up, too.

You WILL have an electric bill, guaranteed, without solar. You won't have one, guaranteed, with solar.
Posted by doctordawg
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
Interesting.
So your setup was made affordable on the backs of taxpayers and utility rate payers.

6 years to recoup YOUR investment.

When do I get mine back?
Posted by Hates Idiots
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
When the new power plant isn't built....
...because enough folks pushed the pencil and saw installing the solar panels worked for their personal investment. The focus of the subsidy in this case is two-fold: to make it more attractive when individual households push the pencil, but also for the utility, who may not have to build the new power plant that would otherwise be needed to address peak power needs if enough folks didn't produce their own.
Posted by klassman6
29th Apr 2012
-2 Votes
+ -
It is a simple question.
For those of us who cannot afford solar, even the lease options, where is MY ROI on MY tax dollars?

My rates still go up even if a new plant is not built. The 1 percent get richer.

Where is MY MONEY?
Posted by Hates Idiots
Updated - 1st May 2012
0 Votes
+ -
Working well for us
We are in LA and have leased a SunRun system. Our daily average cost has gone from $2.72 to $.32. The price of electricity WILL be going up. We could purchase the system at any point - for instance if we sell and the buyer does not want to take over the contract. I wanted to go solar to be green but also to save money and to have a slightly better chance of surviving when the energy crisis deepens. I don't mind contributing to the Varengo/SunRun venture because I want to see solar on every sun exposed roof in LA.
Posted by Idiolect
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
"Solar" it's come a long way
For some reason the vast amount of the public believe that solar energy is totally out of reach. With the technology advancements, Diy guides, many have already converted to solar at a cost of only a fraction of what many are led to think just the way the power companies want it.

http://solarpowerenergy1.om/blog/
Posted by wildtky44
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
This sounds like a great deal-
for the solar company. Basically your costs would be about same- and that's only at today's prices. Did anyone read the sentence "lease payments would be subject to annual increase of 2.9 percent"? At the twentieth year your lease payment will be almost DOUBLE. Plus, oddly you still have a small "electric bill" on top of the lease payment! Savings my a$$.

Also, unlike other utility companies, one has to sign a 10/20 year contract. Bad idea. If you want to sell the place, you're totally at the mercy of the buyer's willingness and ability to get you off the hook.

If anything, this article showed me that people's perceptions of solar costs were spot on, and anyone foolish enough to sign a 10/20 year contract will probably regret it.
Posted by ddferrari
27th Apr 2012
+3 Votes
+ -
One point
You make a good point about the annual increase.

I want to make it one point clear, my personal example isn't an accurate representation of the average homeowner's energy bill. I've taken a number of steps to keep my bills low, such as energy efficient lighting, windows, appliances, plus I tend to be one those annoying just-put-on-a-sweater type people.

The best way to figure out if it's foolish or not is to take your own 12 months of utility bills, determine the average monthly cost and then get a personalized solar system quote for your home to see if an installation would offset your monthly bill. Add in any other costs, like 2.9 percent fee for example, and any savings you would receive through incentives, and see how the numbers shake out.
Posted by kirsten korosec
27th Apr 2012
+2 Votes
+ -
Thanks (again)
for your response. First off, a "just-put-on-a-sweater" attitude makes you tough and smart, not annoying. I'm just contemplating the economy and housing market, and thinking that unless the savings were enormous (and we know that they aren't yet), any long term contract should be avoided.

Your article was filled with valuable information; kudos to you.
Posted by ddferrari
Updated - 28th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
On target.
That annual increase is part of why the math did not work for me.

The first year I would save money about 8 months of the year. Year 3 that dropped to 3 months.

By year 4 I was on the losing side of the math 11 months of the year.

That was using state projections for convetional power rate increases for a comparison.
Posted by Hates Idiots
30th Apr 2012
+4 Votes
+ -
Simple...
If it were a good idea it wouldn't need a subsidy.
Posted by hemophilic
27th Apr 2012
-1 Votes
+ -
If it were a good idea it wouldn't need a subsidy.
Not so. Subsidies are needed to get things in motion, get some examples out there on roof tops. If you don't see some neighbors with solar in operation you too will not be interested. Also, with very few solar systems in place there are few suppliers carrying product and so competition is very low. As interest widens the cost will come down for photovoltaic panels. It has already happened at the manufacturing level. Lots of panels being manufactured in Asia to compete with the likes of Semens panels, etc. So, yes subsidies are needed to kick start some of these good things. I live in SW Canada and we get a fair amount of rain and cloud but even so photovoltaics can produce a reasonable output. I just talked to a relative in England that had 14 each 250 watt panels on his home in a grid tie system and expects it to pay for itself in about 6 years. Petrol is expensive there and so is other forms of energy. It may not be sunny Spain but still bright enough to be adequate for the task.
Posted by radiodog4@...
27th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Just like Ethanol...
...A "good idea" that we now know isn't, and yet still gets subsidized because of the "feedback loop" that gets established with all subsidies.
Posted by JohnMcGrew@...
29th Apr 2012
+1 Vote
+ -
Not addressing the entire cost factor....
...is deceiving. Whether the cost is "up front" or later down the road, if the ROI isn't worth the "overall" cost, then it is not worthwhile to install solar energy products.

Then we have the other "costs". Government subsidies are a "cost" factor. Whether the person receiving the subsidies is paying just some of this additional "cost" or everyone else is putting up the money, government subsidies directly "cost" everyone.

I personally believe that technology will eventually make solar energy worthwhile. But to try to make it seem like the cost factor is not a problem is just downright deceiving.
Posted by RoBoTeq
27th Apr 2012
0 Votes
+ -
97% of Americans overestimate cost of installing solar
No, not unless 100% of Americans estemate costs of installing solar in the first place. You can't over-estimate something you don't estimate.

My ROI for solar is... never. I have a 1450sf house in hot-as-blazes Texas. I keep it comfortable in the summer, running my efficient A/C in a house with radiant barrier, a white roof, solar glass, etc. It's quite energy efficient, and I have already cut my electicity use by >40%, so that my peak summer use is only about 1100 Kwh a month, and that's for 2-3 months a year. During cool months it's about half that.

If solar cut my energy use by 500Kwh per month, I would save about $60.... for three months. Even if I saved $700 a year, how long would it take to pay of a solar system? LOL
Posted by bb_apptix
30th Apr 2012
0 Votes
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One thing that I haven't seen mentioned, that can help on that ROI
Is that (if you own your own and don't lease), whatever you don't use, you can sell to the grid. Making money off the excess and getting that ROI fairly fast, especially if your house IS that energy-efficient in the first place.
Posted by jonrosen
12th Feb
0 Votes
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Subsidies
"If it were a good idea it wouldn't need a subsidy." Not always true - subsidies work, and sometimes not for better. In 1905 there were an estimated 350,000 solar hot water heaters in use in southern California and Arizona. If you wanted a hot bath I guess you could chop wood and heat a bucket, but it was a lot easier and cheaper to install a Day and Night Solar Water Heater Company device on your roof. The development of oil and gas deposits in California led utilities in both states to offer free gas water heaters to homeowners, if they connected to the new lines. In a "private" industry subsidized stroke the solar water heater business in those two states went out of business. And then we the taxpayers started paying for energy company exploration tax breaks (subsidies) and environmental cleanup costs (also taxpayer funded through costs passed on by oil companies.) It's not evil - it's just business. But to counteract a perceived private interest group advantage it takes a public willingness to fund policy changes.
Posted by geodrone
30th Apr 2012
0 Votes
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Utility Electricity will cost much more in 10-25 years.
As those dead dinosaurs in the dirt dry up, electricity rates will continue to climb.
All those myopic tree huggers will be jumping for joy!
Posted by Wil Fluewelling
30th Apr 2012
-2 Votes
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nike soccer cleats
The nike mercurial sl is a dance aerobic sneaker that has all of the features that were mentioned above. Manywomen love this shoe because it is able to provide everything that they require in this shoe and it alsocan be had for a very affordable price.The Nike Musique FeaturesHere are some of the features of this wonderful sneaker. It has all that is needed for any danceaerobics class.

Flexibility is one of The Musique is very lightweight Nike Mercurial victory VIII and supportive, this is courtesy of synthetic leather and a light meshupper. There is also midfoot strapping that allows for support during the different routines. The shoe has extra stability, courtesy of double-lasted forefoot and heel. There is a Phylon midsole that is able to give lightweight cushioning. The rubber outsole gives excellent traction. There is a pivot point on the forefoot of the shoe

Well it seems that a lot of people love the Nike Shox Navina. The shoe is solid and it is perfect forrunning, for use in the gym or casual wear.
nike mercurial talaria v The shoe works very well, but what many people seem to be
blown away by are the varying colors that are available
Posted by adidas23
8th May 2012
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