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‘Adventurous’ surrogate mother wanted for Neanderthal baby

By Charlie Osborne | January 21, 2013, 2:09 AM PST

Dolly the Sheep caused enough controversy, but the difference in cloning animals and Homo sapiens is profound.

So how would you feel about cloning a Neanderthal?

Geneticist George Church from Harvard Medical School says that far from this being a work of fiction, it is possible to clone a Neanderthal and bring the extinct species back into the world after more than 30,000 years.

Speaking to publication Der Spiegel, Church says that the only piece left of the puzzle is a willing, “adventurous” woman to bring such a child to term.

The 58-year old explained to the publication that due to advances in genetic engineering and research, it is “quite possible,” and he has already managed to extract enough DNA from fossilized bones to recreate a fully-fledged member of the species. This data is being used within his lab to gradually alter modern human cells.

Church does not understand why so many people feel “hurt” by genetic engineering, and believes that eventually, the political and social barriers to using this kind of technology will fall.

“I am 3.8 percent Neanderthal,” said Church, who has had his own genome sequenced. “One of my ancestors mated with a Neanderthal, and I am not embarrassed by that.”

Whether the creation of a Neanderthal child will happen during Church’s career or not remains to be seen, but as The Verge notes, such an experiment may provide a unique insight into our own evolution. During an interview with Bloomberg last year, the geneticist commented:

“We have lots of Neanderthal parts around the lab. We are creating Neanderthal cells. Let’s say someone has a healthy, normal Neanderthal baby. Well, then, everyone will want to have a Neanderthal kid. Were they superstrong or supersmart? Who knows? But there’s one way to find out.”

(via The Verge)

Photo Credit: Ryan Somma

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About Charlie Osborne

Charlie Osborne is a contributing editor for SmartPlanet.

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What is the point of this?

Why try to rebuild a type of human being that became exctinct and may well be so strange that they can't have a good life? What kind of life would this person have? What if the Neanderthal has an IQ like a big monkey? If such a person were born naturally, Ok, that is a natural occurrence, but to try to make someone, a person, as an experiment, knowing as little as we do about this previous relation, and knowing that there was probably a scientific and natural reason why these people no longer exist for millenia, why make someone who would likely be unhappy or have all sorts of medical or genetic issues? To study them? Do the scientists presume this proposed person will have no human rights? Who is going to pay for this? It is not the same as cloning a species recently extinct, like the doddo bird, because we know those can and would be able to live normally. I like cats, large and small, but I do not clamor for the cloning of the the ancient saber tooth cat no matter how magnificent it may be, nor for other ancestral species of animal. Or of long- excinct species of people. It's a bad idea.

Should a calamity wipe out a whole race of modern human, I would not oppose cloning from a logical point to restore the health of the gene pool.

Posted by opcom

21st Jan

Just
In

The "genetic research" had to be heavily flawed,

since, even a chimp is known to be 98% the "equal" to humans, genetically.

Think about that.

Posted by adornoe

28th Jan

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Clearly never been to Watford

... plenty of Neanderthals there

Posted by Mouseboy007

21st Jan

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-6

Cloning Neanderthals

Posted by artful@... | Below your threshold

-6

Nah! Sorry! You have things completely azz-backwards. Democrats have

Posted by adornoe | Below your threshold

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You missed the inauguration

Posted by Cmd_Line_Dino

21st Jan

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You mean, "the coronation" of the despot?

Posted by adornoe | Below your threshold

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If the Republicans really wanted to do that...

...then all they need to do is change their mind regarding abortion.

Posted by JohnMcGrew@...

21st Jan

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+2 Votes

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What is the point of this?

Posted by opcom

21st Jan

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Back to the Future?

If those selfsame sabertooths were to make a reappearance (probably already have in some sort of 2nd Life format) and did so in a miniaturized form, everyone would probably want one. They'd even be as popular as the goofy mini-burros and potbellied pigs that were all the rage awhile back. Actually, we could do the same with elephants, tigers and rhinoceroses so that, as pets no less unmanageable than, say, a pack of pekinese, we'd still have oodles of genetic stock to mess around with and not have to agonize every time we read about the rampant, unstoppable, inevitable extinctions that are the fate of any wild beastie that better serves mankind via the production of paw-ashtrays, hoof-umbrella stands or powderhorn aphrodisiacs.

As to the neanderthals, the big question is really all about sports, not whether they'd have mental problems or a hard time with math: how would these guys react on the old gridiron when it came down to busting through the Bengals' defense for precious yardage? Get your priorities straight, please!

Posted by Steve Lowe Oakland

21st Jan

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Neanderthal child

As an idea it's really bright - it prompts imagination. The argument about the happiness of such a child raises serious questions, indeed - I applaud the comment. My response is, "don't we have enough problems in the world to solve before we add wild cards to the pack?" To what extent has surrogating babies of different races succeeded, for example? Have the offspring been followed up and should they not be, before contemplating something so radical? If the genes are receptacles of memory then it may be even worse, for it would be painful to adjust to a world that is already causing so much stress.

Posted by kilulu

21st Jan

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What do you know about Neandartha's that has you opposed to re-creating

one of them?

Fact is that, no one knows what kind of intelligence they had, and as far as anyone knows, they might have had the same kind of intelligence as can be found in the human species.

But, before a "Neanderthal race" is created, you'd need two of them, one female and one male, to get started. To get that job done, all that would be needed is for the "reborn" or "cloned" Neanderthal to get together with a liberal, and we'd have a "purebreed" Neanderthal in our hands. wink

Posted by adornoe

21st Jan

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Political joke is out of place on this site

Much worse, it doesn't even make sense. Your own post says, "no one knows what kind of intelligence they had."
Other than the dumb joke, your post is fine, making several good points.
Signed,
A Conservative

Posted by dmm99

22nd Jan

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Though written as a joke, there is a lot of truth to that joke,

where a lot of liberal thinking is no thinking at all, and they function with just their emotions leading them to act.

Emotions are triggers for the thought process, and emotions should not be where "thinking" ends. That's the way the lower forms of animals act.

Posted by adornoe

28th Jan

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The next level.

Cloning humans will happen. It's inevitable if we don't kill ourselves first and I think it will be just like everything else in that it has its good side and it's bad side. I'm fairly convinced it's already happened anyway but that's another topic. All in all, I think we could benefit greatly from it if done correctly. And, judging by our history, I'd say there's probably about a 37-38% chance we will make the right decisions.

Cloning Neanderthals is a little different for me. In the first place, I feel very badly for the "first" Neanderthal in being little more than a lab experiment. What feelings will they have about being not just a little different and being cognitive about it? I can't imagine we'd treat them as as equals. I'm not sure we can handle sharing our planet with another hominid. I'm mean, we have enough trouble with the same species with a different skin color. And it doesn't even have to be that obvious for us to hate each other. I'm not sure I want to know how we'd react to another species that truly would be separate but equal and share the same planet, the same resources. We're going to have to become a LOT more enlightened or suffer the consequences.

Personally, I think machines will become sentient and take over before we have to worry about a family of Neanderthals living next door but you never know.

Posted by victortweed

21st Jan

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Fascinating

Recent studies on Neanderthal artifacts indicate a high level of planning and careful execution in the production of their stone tools. DNA analysis suggests that they may well have had the the capacity for language. They were probably living in Europe 3-5 times longer than Homo Sap has been around. Their brains were probably slightly larger than Homo Sap's. We may have been just a little more nasty and were successful in driving them into extinction. Clearly any Neanderthal born of a woman would be human and have full human rights. Given that they had the capacity to mate with Homo Sap and produce fertile progeny would clearly indicate they were part of the human family. Restoring them would be far more interesting than mammoths or mastodons.

Posted by xrayangiodoc

21st Jan

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Nostalgic

Please neo sapiens, can you hold on to your urge? Over the other edge they are still alive....

Posted by Elrandy

22nd Jan

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We are so stupid sometimes

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. There is zero wisdom in science I think. Scientists only see what's in front of them, not Step 2, or 3. The blind pursuit of "understanding" is of course what has put us in cars and homes and not living under trees, yet we are reaching a point where we can really screw things up royally and yet we continue on. Generally speaking, if you're somebody that believes in God, probably it's fine to just assume this is all part of the plan and design. After all, the old saying, "everything is what it should be, because it is" applies there. Then again, maybe we'll run ourselves into extinction and some day the earth will be dominated by, who knows, insects that had evolved past the "pest" state.

Anyway, this Harvard guy sounds exactly likie a 5 year old playing with a gun. We should wait until genetics are advanced enough that we can produce individual Neanderthal organs and study those, but not the full being that lives and thinks. Problem is scientists don't understand the concept of wait, because they want to be first to discover something. It is way too early in genetics to muck around by doing such a thing as give birth to a being.

And to those that try to argue "why not?". That's an irrelvant argument. The only question here is "why" do it. If there's no compelling reason, then the risks are not worth the blind stumbling we tend to do in such situations.

It always gets back to the same question:

Just because we can, does it mean we should?

There is no wisdom in science it seems so like a parent to the 5 year old, we need to guide them awa yfrom foolish pursuits whilst still encouraging development.

Posted by viProCon

Updated - 22nd Jan

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Scientists

I have no opinion about the topic of the article.

I point out that your statements of what scientists want to do and why are your opinions... with no supporting facts.

And you say "we need to guide them". Just who would that we be?

Just reminds me of what Winston Churchill said...
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

And JFK...
"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all."

My experience is that more Americans believe in astrology than in astronomy.

Posted by Cmd_Line_Dino

Updated - 22nd Jan

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I could easily be mistaken

I appreciate that you either read a lot of books or searched online for some quotes, but what meaning are they conveying that you can't form from original thought. I'm not insulting you, just it seems that people that use quotes are not focused on how to communicate on their own behalf. I could be wrong.

A quote I found interesting while Googling for clever quotes to reply here with is:

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Mahatma Gandhi

I know science is necessary insofar as it exists and we were created with innate curiosity, but the wisdom of knowing when not to stumble forth blindly is something learned and often disregarded even if known. But yes, this Harvard fellow seems like a 5 year old with a gun if he in any serious way wants to get a woman pregnant using Neanderthal DNA. It's too early too play around with genetics, and that is all it really is at this stage, Playing, since no known outcome is expected from this situation. And when it comes to the subject of a living being we consider "equal enough", there should be no skipping steps if we must pursue this. Develop and research as much as possible without bringing a being with sentience into the mix.

When we can computer model the human body to the point where we can accurately predict any outcome from any type of stimulus, then we can model other lifeforms the same way and not have this argument. But we haven't come close to mastering the human body and likely won't for many years. Eventually we'll probably converge on that understanding, but we're not there now.

What if the Neanderthal is prone to violent outburts, perhaps as a natural "over" adrenalization (if that's a word....) insinct that occurs when another male looks him in the eye? What then? Lock him up? Put him down? Or just maybe we're just smart enough to predict this problem and manipulate his genetics before he is born. Oh but wait, that means we're genetically manipulating a near-human being that is considered equal to us, yet we don't even allow it to be done on our own kind? Interesting predicament there. One can only hope that the born being will develop into an "adjusted" individual, capable of integrating with us in some way. But we have absoutely no way of knowing, and the only possible outcome if he does not conform, is somethign that ultimately violates him, and thus, we demonstrate our lack of wisdom.

I'm sorry, I certainly was generalizing scienists and am doing so unfairly, and thus I am wrong to do so, but this suggestion of giving birth to a Neanderthal at this point in time is nothing short of a bad idea. What comes of it? If the being is any different than we are, how will it survive? Integrate? Hold it in a lab? We can't even decide how to deal with existing problems, and while granted sometimes having a new problem forces the solution to an existing problem, we're not smart enough to predict that outcome thus we're foolishly stumbling forward into the future.

Anyway, the more that is said on this subject, the less actually gets said so ultimately I havne't said very much. Perhaps it's time for a quote:

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth. "
Mahatma Gandhi

So, ignore everything I have said if it doesn't bring you closer to a better undertsanding of things, and I do apologize for the offences.

Posted by viProCon

22nd Jan

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Quotes

The first quote I knew, the second I came across in verifying the wording and attribution of the first. The comment on astrology and astronomy is mine (as far as I know).

My feeling is that quotes are valuable. A well written one conveys an idea in a concise manner. A good quote deserves to be kept alive. To rewrite it in one's own words seems wrong. Also by giving the attribution the reader can go and read more by the author of the quote.
Older quotes are also history.
Alexander Hamilton for example had a number of excellent quotes that still convey great meaning in our present day.
Very interesting to read them and then think about all the political talk we hear today where people are just so so sure they know what the founding fathers believed.

Posted by Cmd_Line_Dino

22nd Jan

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Neanderthal child

This subject was addressed in the book 'Ember From The Sun'. Written by Mark Canter in 1996 and published in 1997. It is a fictional account of this happening and the outcome. A good, fast read which leaves the reader with the ultimate 'What If ' questions. Genetic research has determined that modern humans are about 3% Neanderthal, think about that.

Posted by Danhsays

Updated - 25th Jan

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+1 Vote

+ -

The "genetic research" had to be heavily flawed,

since, even a chimp is known to be 98% the "equal" to humans, genetically.

Think about that.

Posted by adornoe

28th Jan

Reply
Flag

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